Viper Changes Thread - Share your thoughts

[W00by]

So... Two things:

1) Hello, you must be new here. This has been SE's M.O. for the past eight years.
2) The players aren't struggling. They never have been. They simply don't want to engage with the game in any meaningful way. It was never an issue of accessibility to begin with.

Tragically, I've been playing since Heavensward. This is just the first time they've come for one of my jobs so directly, so it's my first time getting this angry over it on the forums. But at least I could understand why THEY think removing something like Kaiten makes the job easier for players even if I strongly disagree, but I literally can't fathom how making the Vipersight gauge more convoluted is gonna help anyone. But perhaps I should have said "complaining" rather than "struggling." Because we all know the only people asking for this claim are entitled people who cannot fathom that a job doesn't bend over backwards to give them max DPS, the gold log, and a hot quintuple legend significant other to carry them the minute they pick up the job stone.

I'm aware that that's who these changes are for. People whose response to a pebble in the road is to call their mommy or complain about it. The entitlement to performance in this game is obnoxious.

[Aco505]

This JUST came to my mind, too, but does this change even ACCOMPLISH anything for accessibility?

Yes, because now you simply alternate each basic combo starter. I wouldn't be surprised if they added the glowing tell to the 1st GCD of the basic combo as well, thus making the job even more of a "press the glowing button" thing.

The only timer to be aware of is the normal 30s timer to hit a combo'd GCD, since the new buffs last 60s and will never drop under normal circumstances.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Im honest, i dont really like the Changes, im quit against it but i accept it, its overall a Damage Increase and gives possibilitys for new stuff, so lets see how it turns out sooner or later, i dont let the Change destroy the Fun i have with my Dual Wield Class

[Magusware]

For real, the fun has been removed. This is the worst thing that could have happened to Viper. When they said they were going to address how busy it was, I was immediately worried as the busy-ness of the job is what made it fun!

Having 3 status effects on 40 seconds you have to maintain for optimal performance was what made this job really interesting.

The 2 venoms you could argue were always relatively free to keep up, now even more so - they might as well be traits.
The more interesting one to work with was Nox, the debuff on the target. The removal of Nox has removed agency from the players in combat on whether they refresh Nox now, or even how they refresh Nox. Here's an example... Nox is 23 seconds, what do you do? You could Dreadwinder immediately, or use Dread Fangs, but you lose 3 seconds, not very optimal, but it's a "safe" thought. Easy to do if you don't care about that optimisation. But what I would do is start Steel Fangs and a follow up, then go into Dreadwinder.
It's not a lot of thought or effort, but thinking like that in the middle of combat has been removed. Doing that on the fly while dealing with mechanics was a lot of fun, it was very engaging.

This has been removed and I hate it.
A lot.

Please undo these Viper changes.

[W00by]

Yes, because now you simply alternate each basic combo starter. I wouldn't be surprised if they added the glowing tell to the 1st GCD of the basic combo as well, thus making the job even more of a "press the glowing button" thing.

The only timer to be aware of is the normal 30s timer to hit a combo'd GCD, since the new buffs last 60s and will never drop under normal circumstances.

But in their wording, the thing that was confusing people was tied to the Vipersight gauge -- the alternating buttons and the switching combos, and things never being consistent. In the past, you were MOSTLY Steel Fang-ing and only OCCASIONALLY Dread Fang-ing, but now people will have to alternate more. People who weren't good at keeping track of it (which isn't even that hard, I mean, c'mon, I've had the combos memorized for weeks) are going to have to look at what they self admit is a clunky gauge even more often.



If "managing the different combo routes" was the problem, they have added MORE management to combo routes in exchange for debuff management. But aren't they stacking more onto what THEY said was the problem? It makes. zero. sense.

[SeaJae]

Nice.. another job that I will drop

I have none left to drop with these Dawntrail job design changes/additions/removals.

If you skew towards job/class gameplay skill expression over fight mechanical execution, the past few expansions have been rough.
I'm not saying anyone is dumb or wrong for liking this direction, but I am saying I for one enjoy maximizing job potential and avoiding fail states (other than avoiding death/damage downs) more so than JUST handling boss mechanics in a very scripted pattern. For me, there needs to be a balance and that balance right now is extremely off.

[Taranok]

This JUST came to my mind, too, but does this change even ACCOMPLISH anything for accessibility? They cite that people found the alternating combos "harder than average" for a melee DPS, so what they did was:

Replace a timer people had to look at and keep track of...

with a timer people have to look at and keep track of?

Think about it. Anyone who was struggling with Viper because they couldn't handle alternating without staring at the Vipersight Gauge (or didn't LIKE the Vipersight Gauge) will struggle MORE now. You have to look at the Vipersight Gauge MORE OFTEN, since it now has 3 step stages rather than 2, and you'll be alternating the first combo steps MORE OFTEN (since you didn't have to Dread Fangs that often with Dreadwinder anyways). If you are coming out of a Reawaken, burst phase, or boss downtime phase and don't remember if you started with Steel Fangs or Reaving Fangs most recently, you'll have to look at either your Buff Bar (with the dreaded TIMERS!!!! that they wanted to get rid of SO BADLY!!!!) or your Vipersight gauge (which they ADMIT was confusing people!!!).

This change. Accomplishes. NOTHING. It will not help the players who were struggling. And it makes the job more boring for players who were at a higher end.

What the -- pardon my French -- heck, devs?

1, due to awakening and how it works, the 40s timer with 20s refresh made it awkward to launch awakening whenever. 2, 40s buff durations meant that you could shockingly easily drop the 3-step combo buff. If you, say, double awakening into triple uncoiled fury and then threw into...oh, it's called vicewinder now...end with that, you could drop the combo ender buffs. Either way, it is shockingly easy to run down the clock on the baseline combo buffs while still maintaining your other buffs. As for noxious gnash, I was kind of expecting it to stack up to 1m of debuff. But man am I happy they just straight up removed that garbage buff.

Also I find it funny how you think it will be harder to play. They straight made it a rocker-rocker-nested rocker rotation. 2-2-2, 1-1-1, 2-2-1, 1-1-2. It's actually more consistent now even though they literally could merge the 1 step combo buff with the 3 step, and make it only consume the buff on step 3. In a roundabout way, Viper has turned into a mishmash of Reaper's burst with Ninja's GCD and Monk's rotation. Considering no one has to stare at boss debuffs anymore to play the class, it's definitely easier. Though I can't wait to hear about how viper sucks in TOP because they added 2 more personal buffs. No clue if they stack or not, really hope they don't and are simply consumed.

[Rhael]

I have none left to drop with these Dawntrail job design changes/additions/removals.

Same. Viper was literally the last possible job that had a chance of being enjoyable to me, and now I don't even have Viper. There's literally no longer even a single enjoyable job left in this game for me.

[Aco505]

If "managing the different combo routes" was the problem, they have added MORE management to combo routes in exchange for debuff management. But aren't they stacking more onto what THEY said was the problem? It makes. zero. sense.

You've said it yourself, before there was some thought when it came to using Dread Fangs (and Dreadwinder). Now there's no thoughts. Just press glowing button. Brain smooth and happy.

Making Noxious Gash stack up to 60s would've already saved a lot of thinking, since a lot of the heavy lifting would've been done by Dreadwinder but... *shrug*

[Rhael]

due to awakening and how it works, the 40s timer with 20s refresh made it awkward to launch awakening whenever.

Good. That's literally just good job design. It shouldn't be free and zero-thought.

2, 40s buff durations meant that you could shockingly easily drop the 3-step combo buff. If you, say, double awakening into triple uncoiled fury and then threw into...oh, it's called vicewinder now...end with that, you could drop the combo ender buffs.

So don't do that. It's that easy. Simply don't enter reawaken at a time that results in dropping something.