Viper Changes Thread - Share your thoughts

[Amh_Wilzuun]

This change is terrible. I’d say it’s even worse than the kaiten removal.

I think it’s pretty messed up that they said they would remove positionals and busyness only to remove buff management. The feedback they have been getting was for the former and we didn’t even know removing the latter was on the table so we weren’t even able to express that we wanted to keep NG

[KooriGraywolf]

Reapplying a debuff is an unnecessary mechanic. I prefer Viper without Noxious Gnash

[Nathavin]

I really hope they revert these changes. Gnash was one of the few choices this job had, a very small but fun optimization.

[W00by]

A lot of people are saying that "this change didn't do much" to the job, and I'd like to take a moment to dispel that opinion.

On a training dummy, yes, you are mostly just alternating between Steel Fangs and Reaving Fangs, and in a full-uptime fight situation, Noxious Gash was just something you applied and kept up without thinking about.

But this world doesn't exist in a full-uptime situation. In fights where the boss would leave, or new additional enemies would appear, Noxious Gash became very interesting. For instance, take Valigarmanda's phase before ult, where he summons the additional enemies that must be DPS'd down. The Viper now has some new problems they must face:

1. How do I apply Noxious Gash to the first add I'm fighting?

2. How do I apply Noxious Gash to a second add if the one I'm fighting dies first?

3. How do I reapply Noxious Gash to Valigarmanda when he reappers?

It was possible to do all of these things without hitting an enemy that didn't have Noxious Gash. You could save a Dreadwinder charge for the start of the phase, and use Dreadwinder on the first add you hit. Then, you could finish 1 combo, and use Uncoiled Fury on your add so you don't have to start another combo until your add is dead. Since you are on a fresh combo for the next add, you could start with Dread Fangs, and DPS the last add down. And, at this point you had another Dreadwinder charge, so when Valigarmanda came back, no matter where you were in your combo, you could immediately reapply Noxious Gash to prepare for the 2 minute window.

Interesting choice. Optimization. Skill expression. Saying "Noxious Gash did nothing for the job, these changes are meaningless" is a bold-faced lie. Imagine how interesting Viper could have been, planning Noxious Gash around Ultimate trios, downtime phases, two-target bosses. . .

Now we have a sterile rotation that is decided for you the moment you pick your first GCD. What do I do when Valigarmanda summons his Nails? Just keep pressing the flashing buttons, I guess. Just like before, and just like every other time, ad infinitum.

PLEASE listen to the experienced Vipers here, we know what we're talking about. . .

[Embio]

Yep, it's bad. Job actually became the "press the glowing button" Yoshi-P had to reassure people wasn't the case in the pre-release Liveletter showcase. Oops.

It was already pretty dull below 90, and it's even worse now. Triple Reawaken seems like it might have some memey fun, but it only adds to the issue that most jobs now are only allowed to have fun for 15 seconds every 2 minutes.

[Erwann]

I just wish the devs would say something on the matter, to know whether it's worth to expect some reversal to the changes or just straight up abandon ship and move onwards to another job.

[Memyx]

My 2 cents after going ham on my training dummy this morning:

It's fine, if not better, now. I would argue that the new interactions better express the flow the job was going for, moves empowering one another and using the proper follow ups.

[W00by]

My 2 cents after going ham on my training dummy this morning:

It's fine, if not better, now. I would argue that the new interactions better express the flow the job was going for, moves empowering one another and using the proper follow ups.

Every job is a braindead nothing burger on a training dummy. Of course it didn't matter there.

The problem is that Viper no longer interacts with the fight -- with 1 minute enhanced combo timers and no Noxious Gash, nothing short of a CUTSCENE in the middle of the raid will interrupt your scripted, step-by-step, glowing button rotation.

People need to stop with this "it feels the same" argument. It is objectively, indelibly changed to be less interesting and less complex at a higher level. You can like that, but it doesn't make the claim not true. I personally don't want to play melee Summoner.

[Elkanah]

So what Im basically reading is that there's 0 reason to bring viper to basically any fight over more pictomancers. Now that the job doesnt have a debuff+ on enemies, it's essentially useless.

*picks up rock*

Who I gotta throw this at now? Which developer? Which player(s)?

[Komarimono]

So what Im basically reading is that there's 0 reason to bring viper to basically any fight over more pictomancers. Now that the job doesnt have a debuff+ on enemies, it's essentially useless.

*picks up rock*

Who I gotta throw this at now? Which developer? Which player(s)?

It only affected Viper damage.