Viper Changes Thread - Share your thoughts

[W00by]

Well, my Viper friends, the rework came.

As a TL;DR if you don't wanna look through the patch notes, Noxious Gash was removed and now you just alternate between your combo starters, similar to Monk's Dragon Kick + Bootshine.

Positionals remain and didn't really receive potency changes that are significant in any way.

How are you feeling about this? Personally, I am disgusted. I can't believe they would rework a job so significantly and so fundamentally right out of the gate, right when savage is releasing. Especially after all of the outcry about keeping it the same. I loved optimizing around my timers, so the fact that the Combo Enders and Noxious Gash timers have been, effectively, removed (since Combo Ender timers are now 60s and barely matter anyway) is beyond depressing. I cannot imagine this change improves the feel of the job at all. Filler is now as simple as "alternate because you alternate," and the job has truly become the "flashing button" job. Whether or not to maintain Noxious Gash was the ONE decision you made during filler, apart from positionals. How could they think a boring alternation like this is superior to the buff management? Keeping up Noxious Gash was already extremely easy and just added some niche optimization. . .

It has barely been a month. Was a change of this size warranted? I don't know. Please share your thoughts, friends. I'd like to hear what others think.

Edit: I've also seen a few people mention that this makes Viper way less fun below level cap. Imagine picking this job up at level 80 today and having no mechanic except "Hit whatever button the Vipersight Gauge says to and lol don't overcap Dreadwinder I guess!" No more choosing when to use Dreadwinder -- sorry, VICEwinder -- for optimal Noxious Gash timing, no more nuanced and varied combo alternation, no more interesting multi-target or post-downtime optimization. The more I think about it, the more I think this change is utter garbage.

Revert it.

[Rhael]

It's fucking trash. Viper is gonna feel very different now, and not in a good way.

[Shinun]

Triple Reawaken time?

[FunnyCero]

So much for having a unique new job. I guess if they're really this eager to stomp the job right out the gate while other jobs are left in tremendously bad states compared to previous expacs, then why bother looking forward to new ones.

[Aco505]

Revert the Noxious Gash changes.

Allow it to stack to 60s if they want to make it "easier", following their logic, and to allow for triple Reawaken during pot.

Why change the names of attacks? This makes no sense. How do they decide to make changes like these not even a month into the expansion?

No more changes besides that.

Edit: I've also seen a few people mention that this makes Viper way less fun below level cap.

Because the job is even worse than RPR when it comes to the level at which actions are acquired and unlike RPR, going full speed doesn't change that much since Dreadwinder does not benefit from SkS.

[kurkee]

I've always been a big fan of timers that matter. Even if they can be challenging at times, players that want to display mastery on their job can get a lot of value out of having short timers in their kit, or tight refreshes, which was a core part of viper's design. As of these changes, lengthening these timers make them a cosmetic part of the job more than one you'd be rewarded for understanding. And that's a damn shame. Some jobs can be streamlined experiences, but viper doesn't need to be one of them, and I think this ultimately does not stand to benefit the players that wouldn't care about a buff falling off that much. I doubt they'd notice much either way. Conversely, for a person that cares a lot, you're culling so much meaningful depth for the job haphazardly.

[Supersnow845]

I don’t like what the changes did to the job but I’m sick of melee having self buffs that are just debuffs on the boss (deaths design also looking at you here)

I don’t like the changes but that’s one thing I’m glad of

[Rhael]

As of these changes, lengthening these timers make them a cosmetic part of the job more than one you'd be rewarded for understanding.

No, you see, we can't have jobs be anything more than cosmetics. We can't just have interesting parts or any amount of depth. Managing a debuff is just so very difficult! It's not like it's a fundamental part of playing a game like this! Asking our players to be aware of a few timers is just asking wayy too much! We can't allow our game to have literally any amount of depth or complexity, otherwise how would anyone play it? We're trying to make a movie here, not an actual game! /s

[Aco505]

I’m sick of melee having self buffs that are just debuffs on the boss (deaths design also looking at you here)

I prefer self-buffs because they're more versatile compared to debuffs but... it was just two of them, Death's Design and Noxious Gash. I'd see the point if more jobs had them though.

[ovIm]

Square Enix really have no faith in their product, thats for sure. They could have just made Noxious a self buff if upholding it on multiple enemies was truly that difficult. This change however removes a bit of gameplay of the class that played part in making it more engaging, the decision making of when to use Steel and when to use Dread fangs.

Typical knee jerk change. Remove friction and uniqueness, push class into the mold of all other classes. Every class needs to play the same, all day, every day.