#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Maalik]

Is the strike still going? I haven't noticed as of late tbh if it is.

[Aword3213]

many of these suggestions are terrible and experience in the role is not synonymous with valid suggestions and now you're saying his post has no meaningful contribution.

Pointing out nonsense is a valid contribution.

Terrible is subjective. It’s is not objective fact.

Pointing out nonsense is your personal opinion. It may make sense to a lot of people.








Wow, it really does lead to nowhere

[Saraide]

I see we are having this discussion again. I remember a certain poster who was similarly belligerent on this topic.

[flowerkatie]

Terrible is subjective. It’s is not objective fact.

Pointing out nonsense is your personal opinion. It may make sense to a lot of people.

Correct and correct, both actually being the front points of my original response on the topic, I never stated differently.

[Shurrikhan]

And (once again) we're wondering why I've come to disagree with so many of these suggestions. You actually believe that 'more healing' is a simple case of making raid-wide attacks do more damage when there are a wide plethora of other potential changes that can also support in achieving this goal such as providing less oGCD's in the toolkit of a healer or making them weaker with options to 'buff' or 'proc' based on GCD options which would begin forcing more healing-based actions rather than simply pressing your damage button.

It's an odd (and definitely cursed units) question, but no part of it assumes that only a single particular factor should be used, only a sufficient product. It even says "how many raidwides" right in what you quoted. Nor does the party size matter, since AoEs are already more efficient at 3+ players.

Using thousands of damage would require a target item level, so that's a bit odd, but if someone requests cursed units you can't be bothered with, just give them an answer in something more reasonable and they can convert it later if they like.


Reasonable Units:
~2100 potency of healing, assuming oGCDs were fully leveraged (and could not overheal even when considering would be natural healing wasted as overhealing) and the cohealer, if any, chads. A bit hard to visualize, perhaps, but it's what's actually useful.¹


Cursed Units:
~88000 additional raw raid damage² at ilvl700, assuming oGCDs were fully leveraged (and could not overheal even when considering would be natural healing wasted as overhealing), and the cohealer, if any, chads.¹

To apply that bonus damage, we'd find either a spaced-out source of unavoidable damage intake that hits at least some 4 times per average minute or locate a space in which to add something similar, and divide it more or less proportionately.

¹ Yes, this also assumes that all sources of mitigation were already valuably placed.

² At ilvl 700 (4220 Mind), every 100 "healer potency" (or 130 actual/relative potency) is worth about 4220 HP. Succor does 520 "healer potency" (~676 rP). 4220*5.2*4 -> ~88000.

But, as you and Roe each mentioned, the tricker part is that application of the bonus damage and determining what kinds of increases should be permissible, as not all increases to healing requirements actually increase healer cognitive load and/or likelihood of failure (those together decreasing accessibility), giving decent room to slightly reduce spam via increased healing GCDs alone. (That said, it's usually the things that do in fact add to cognitive load and often generate more risk of deaths from incremental failures that make healing more exciting.)

On a related note, I would be fine with instead nerfing oGCDs etc., or at least, in principle. The problem there is any former actual tight moments could then become impassible, whereas increasing the outgoing raw damage directly produces the same results without reducing sense of responsiveness or necessitating rechecks from retroactive changes to past content. It's therefore a much easier (I'd argue better, even) place from which to experiment with increased healing requirements since it brings with it the fewest other (likely confounding) factors.

[Aravell]

Much of the discussion has been centered around being a healer doing normal content so that shouldn't invalidate anyone's opinion. After all, any changes to a healing job will affect every player that uses that job. Any change to general encounter design including normal will any affect players doing that content.

Does that more or less screw over the healers who are part of the smaller percentage with greater skill when they do normal content? Yeah, but they're not doing content intended for their skill level. That's why the developers say do harder content if you're not feeling satisfied healing in the content you currently do.

You point out that we should be mindful of the regular players for any changes, that's fair. But where was that same mindfulness for us when SE completely reforged the entire healer role upon the anvil of accessibility in ShB? People who do higher-skill content has lost the entire healer role, there is not a single healer that caters to us, not a single one of them has a decently high skill ceiling, why was that same consideration not extended towards us? Why did we have to lose an entire role in the name of accessibility?

Also, like it or not, even people who mostly do savage/ultimate need to cap tomes, that means doing regular content like expert roulette and hunts. You might have a point about sticking with content that satisfies your skill level if savage gives 225 tomes per kill of each floor, then we could cap off doing the weekly tier clear even after tome cap is increased to 900, but they didn't do this, savage barely gives tomes so higher-skilled players are still forced to do regular content to cap tomes, so you can't really tell them to just go stick to their content and not do regular content.

[PercibelTheren]

Say we do up the healing required, begs the question if we up the damage to a point that even offsets self sustain from other classes that means a group would be at the mercy of the healers no?

I have made a post about this before but I think the crux of the issue is that there is no clear image of what healers are supposed to be.

If they're supposed to be the person keeping the party alive, then we absolutely need higher healing requirements but we also need to be fine with having to trust the healers to do their job. We rely on tanks to keep aggro and, to a lesser extent, to position the boss. A bad tank can murder the group by cleaving people with AoE attacks - I see tanks bouncing aggro on Calofisteri and cleaving the group with Haircut regularly. I have been killed by stuff like Heavenly Heel, too. But I don't see any argument saying we need to take that responsibility away from tanks or simplify them because some poeple mess up. If anything, all I'm seeing is displeasure over tanks losing the responsibility to position the boss because of the tendency of every boss to constantly teleport. We also trust DPS to press their buttons in harder content because otherwise the boss will enrage and wipe the group. That's something literally nobody else can do anything about it. Early in the patch, people not pulling their weight DPS-wise is a massive problem. Once again, nobody is asking for DPS to be changed or for this responsibility to be taken away. I personally think it's just because a bad healer is more obvious. It's just that acting like healer is the only one who can ruin a run, which a lot of people do, is silly because it's patently not true.

Option two is that we want healers to be less "keeps the team alive" and more of a support. In that case, healers need something instead/in addition to their bloated healing kit because they don't heal much. The easiest way out is probably a simple DPS rotation and more buff/debuff abilities. I think AST cards were a really good solution until they were turned into just more healing in DT. There are hints of a system like this on every healer, they would just need expanding.

I get it. Having a bad healer is painful. Now that I've switched to DPS, I see just how many clueless people are playing the role. But that's because the game never really forces you to get better at your job and doesn't offer any substantial guidance on how to improve. You really shouldn't have to go digging through wikis and Discord servers to learn how to play the game properly. The game itself should tell you that.

[Kijok]

Is this strike some kind of joke that I'm too noob to understand?
People complaining that other roles have self healing abilities that make healer useless and obsolete?
Then why in the content I'm playing I have to jiggle every single ability in my healers kit and still see other players die while all of my skills are on cd?
It would be more challenging and interesting to have party 100% rely on healers even in normal content, yes, but people already complain about normal content difficulty. Do we really need to spike the difficulty if healer is bad?

[Jojoya]

You point out that we should be mindful of the regular players for any changes, that's fair. But where was that same mindfulness for us when SE completely reforged the entire healer role upon the anvil of accessibility in ShB? People who do higher-skill content has lost the entire healer role, there is not a single healer that caters to us, not a single one of them has a decently high skill ceiling, why was that same consideration not extended towards us? Why did we have to lose an entire role in the name of accessibility?

Also, like it or not, even people who mostly do savage/ultimate need to cap tomes, that means doing regular content like expert roulette and hunts. You might have a point about sticking with content that satisfies your skill level if savage gives 225 tomes per kill of each floor, then we could cap off doing the weekly tier clear even after tome cap is increased to 900, but they didn't do this, savage barely gives tomes so higher-skilled players are still forced to do regular content to cap tomes, so you can't really tell them to just go stick to their content and not do regular content.

SE needs to give their accounting for that. They are the ones that made the changes.

Those who mostly do Savage/Ultimate don't need to do normal content. They get gear for doing Savage. Getting tomestone gear to fill in gear gaps while waiting for Savage gear is helpful for progression but it is not mandatory. Executing mechanics properly goes a lot farther than getting BiS.

Tomestones are the way for the average player to get better gear and they're role agnostic. No one has to do normal content as healer if they don't enjoy healing in normal content. Hunt die so fast with the numbers of players that turn out these days that it doesn't matter what buttons you have to press, you're not going to get to use all of them unless its in the middle of the night during the second half of a patch.

If you're going to set your sights on getting optional gear for whatever reason, then it means accepting that the experience you get may not be to your standards. It is not realistic to expect developers to make all content fit every player of every skill level.

If Savage/Ultimate raiders want to see jobs + normal content changed to make it more interesting for them, then the average player has every right to turn around and ask the developers to make jobs + Savage/Ultimate interesting for them. Is that what you want?

Is this strike some kind of joke that I'm too noob to understand?
People complaining that other roles have self healing abilities that make healer useless and obsolete?
Then why in the content I'm playing I have to jiggle every single ability in my healers kit and still see other players die while all of my skills are on cd?
It would be more challenging and interesting to have party 100% rely on healers even in normal content, yes, but people already complain about normal content difficulty. Do we really need to spike the difficulty if healer is bad?

What creates difficulty?

From my point of view as a healer, it's the other players that create difficulty in normal content more often than not. It's not necessarily that they're bad but there's the learning curve that every player has and it isn't the same for every player. As one player gets enough experience to master the mechanics, a new player will appear that is starting from scratch. For every player lucky enough to play with only 60 ping, there are other players at 400 ping (or more) so they're getting hit by things that from their viewpoint at home they had moved out of in time. As healer, I see my primary role in normal content as keeping other players alive as they get the chance to practice and learn (and that includes myself - I don't always get mechanics figured out first try).

For most players, normal won't be difficult in the long run but it can feel that way at first because fights aren't familiar to us yet.

That aside, are DPS or tanks really impacted if encounter design is changed so healers need to use more GCDs to cast a heal or Esuna instead of Glare/Broil? We're casting something either way. At most, if we're trying to AoE heal we may need to be a bit more cautious about our positioning to make certain everyone that needs a heal gets it. In that respect I don't think difficulty gets changed.

[Reinha]

Much of the discussion has been centered around being a healer doing normal content so that shouldn't invalidate anyone's opinion. After all, any changes to a healing job will affect every player that uses that job. Any change to general encounter design including normal will any affect players doing that content.

Does that more or less screw over the healers who are part of the smaller percentage with greater skill when they do normal content? Yeah, but they're not doing content intended for their skill level. That's why the developers say do harder content if you're not feeling satisfied healing in the content you currently do.
...
So are you feeling bored? Ask your static to let you solo heal, or let your partner solo heal while you go DPS (or tank while a tank switches to DPS, whatever works best). If you're doing normal content, go tank and DPS only. You and your friends may not require the healing. Most groups will, even in normal content.

I've always found the pushback that some players have against the idea that they might be better skilled than the majority of players puzzling.

Extremes give 15 tomes per kill. The devs should increase that by tenfold if they want me to avoid dungeons, so I can cap tomes with the limited time I have. Until then, I'll continue to give feedback on dungeons where people of all skill levels are heavily encouraged to farm their weekly tomes.

Additionally, healing dungeons in ARR-HW was more fun than healing EW savage encounters was for me, and I doubt anyone is going to say ARR dungeons were savage difficulty. Any suggestions to "go play harder content" are misguided because it has nothing to do with content difficulty. It's mostly a job design problem and playing other content doesn't change how the job plays. Can the devs give me 5 buttons for single target dps and less oGCD heals and more interesting AST cards when I zone in front of a savage boss? No? Then doing harder content changes nothing and I'm still spamming one button most of the time.

Jobs should be fun to play in a standard comp with random players in all content. Why should healers be the only role who have to go through the recruitment process for a static or sit in PF just to do a dungeon and then convince other people to do gimmick runs just to cope with the boredom of their rotation? That's completely absurd. Before telling the player who is not having fun they are playing the wrong content in the wrong way, you need to acknowledge that healing used to be fun in a standard comp with random players in all content. I'm not "too skilled" to enjoy healing. I'm not too "dps oriented" to enjoy healing. The healing jobs changed, not me.