You pull you tank question.

[VoidsentStatus]

The point was the fact you're actually going out of your way to give some weight to your adequacy to a forum user, and this is only strengthened by this inane wall of text.

But it's nice that you think I am a Limsa AFK'er. I wouldn't take about derailing the thread if I were you, when you are the one responsible for this LOL

This section isn't toxic, so I can respond to this part.

1) Yes. The last achievement a crafter/gatherer would care about other than relics they don't use or fishing which I don't consider as grindy. Been 2 weeks of work away for over a year, but it's like: -farm 400-500k/hr for 2 weeks or farm 5-10+mil/hr inside of bozja. And bozja's been winning due to housing I needed for future projects along with ranked pvp.

2) Because I made an assumption that people on the forums were normal, and after credibility and knowledge about a subject are verified, slander goes away and you actually get to have a productive discussion. This forum has actually has been worse than my old game. At least they could admit when they were wrong and move forward from there instead of 180'ing to "noone cares" after they get proven wrong. At least I tried xDD

3) If you go back 20 pages, this actually started because of a tank that was (now I know this) knowingly stating blatantly false information about tank pulls and mitigation, that got called out for it, and then shifted to personal insults. And a second set of personal insults coming from someone that stated endgame is ARR, this game has a good tutorial, and apparently it's the player's fault for not having the knowledge they should at a given job level despite the systems the devs put in the game that made it that way, and that it was fair game to criticize and disrespect the desired gameplay of new people because they didn't level a job the way this individual wanted them to. This is the reason I don't like people coming in halfway into arguments.

[Ryaduera]

(I'm not reading all 44 pages of this, just going to talk about the subject with no regard for the above)

No matter the game, I play tanks, and it's the same everywhere. Someone that didn't pick a tank role decides they need to rush me in ways that I actually cannot keep up with, but am expected to. I remember I was with a duo que, the healer and a ninja. The ninja jumped forward into a group, and being a ninja, they were fast, and then pulled them to a second group and jumped to a third group yet again. Obviously, clank clank here comes the tank, I try to get there on time. Ninja dies, I say "Please refrain from going faster than I can, even with sprint I can't keep up. I do wall to wall pulls, you don't need to rush this." Regardless of context, this is how I handle it. I didn't like that, but I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume you were just excited or something. This is how it should be handled... But sometimes it goes like this dungeon.

No comment. Okay, maybe they are using controller and don't want to type or something. Kill the boss. Ninja does the same thing again, I remove tank stance, you were warned. Ninja dies, but I do wall to wall pulls anyway. Healer says I need to be faster and it's greifing that I remove tank stance (Maybe it is, but it's griefing behave like that after I politely ask them not to). I am a Paladin, notably not a ninja, and cannot keep up as they are dashing forward. I say I can't, Ninja needs to stop dashing into things they clearly can't handle or leave and gear a tank. No comment. I mention I will not be saving them on the third strike.

Pull number three, Ninja does it again. I do not sprint. Healer is WHM, stuns the group while Ninja does damage. I do nothing, do not aggro anything, do not enter combat at all. I stand back. Healer uses Rescue. It doesn't work because I haven't hit anything. The RDM with us has also been super quiet, but seems to be on my side and is doing nothing, probably reading the room and waiting for me. Ninja dies, healer brings them to me, but I still don't enter combat, just dodge the attacks until healer is too close to death, then with tank stance off, finally AoE. Healer dies, tank stance on, and by virtue of being a PLD I tank the pull without a healer and the RDM starts to AoE with me. Healer cusses me out and leaves the dungeon, ninja follows suit.

So honestly, even though I don't say YPYT until you've been warned, when stuff like this happens, I can totally see a 0 tolerance policy being adopted for it. You just get sick of it because this stuff happens all the time. Especially with DPS players, they want things to go FAST FAST FAST with no regard for the other players in their game. It ruins our experience and I don't feel bad for your experience being ruined if you want to rush casual players. I don't even pull slow, I time my sprint for 2-5 seconds before entering combat to maximize my sprint distance and use my dashes straight into the enemies to get them as fast as possible. At that point it's not even patience, it's just disrespectful.

Besides, unless your tank is a Dark Knight, you're optional anyway! (A joke, but also kinda not really)

[koko-on-da-forumz]

Paladins don't have sprint or a gap closer?

TIL.

[Ryaduera]

Paladins don't have sprint or a gap closer?

TIL.

I don't even pull slow, I time my sprint for 2-5 seconds before entering combat to maximize my sprint distance and use my dashes straight into the enemies to get them as fast as possible. At that point it's not even patience, it's just disrespectful.

Lalafels still haven't finished reading class? TIL

[Kaurhz]

This section isn't toxic, so I can respond to this part.

1) Yes. The last achievement a crafter/gatherer would care about other than relics they don't use or fishing which I don't consider as grindy. Been 2 weeks of work away for over a year, but it's like: -farm 400-500k/hr for 2 weeks or farm 5-10+mil/hr inside of bozja. And bozja's been winning due to housing I needed for future projects along with ranked pvp.

2) Because I made an assumption that people on the forums were normal, and after credibility and knowledge about a subject are verified, slander goes away and you actually get to have a productive discussion. This forum has actually has been worse than my old game. At least they could admit when they were wrong and move forward from there instead of 180'ing to "noone cares" after they get proven wrong. At least I tried xDD

3) If you go back 20 pages, this actually started because of a tank that was (now I know this) knowingly stating blatantly false information about tank pulls and mitigation, that got called out for it, and then shifted to personal insults. And a second set of personal insults coming from someone that stated endgame is ARR, this game has a good tutorial, and apparently it's the player's fault for not having the knowledge they should at a given job level despite the systems the devs put in the game that made it that way, and that it was fair game to criticize and disrespect the desired gameplay of new people because they didn't level a job the way this individual wanted them to. This is the reason I don't like people coming in halfway into arguments.

So much for "Not entertaining beyond that initial post". I actually meant no disrespect in my initial post yet you elected to take hostilities with it, just as one accused you of being sub-par for a YPYT mentality - You elected to do the self-same thing with baselessly attempting to accuse me of being a Limsa AFK'er as if this is meant in a derogatory manner, so before accusing others of being toxic, I would highly recommend you take a second read at what you yourself are also posting. But let me respond regardless..


1) Fishing I would actual put on-par with the Pteranodon. The Pteranodon lost and continues to have dimishing prestige due to the fact you can now simply macro the recipes within a single button, and due to the increasing amount of yield from Diadem due to hitting all necessary breakpoints, in addition to the Gatherer's Boon rework. Is it still a grind? Sure. But it's a shadow of its former self. Fishing on the other hand has a fairly constant amount of prestige behind it, due to the fish never being guaranteed catches, regardless of your gathering. Personally, just doing to have to disagree with it being the last achievement a crafter/gatherer would care about. - If Space Exploration is indicative of being like Ishgard Restoration then it is likely going to be second fiddle to whatever else they elect to introduce.

2) People here are normal, which is precisely why they don't really care if you publish a video. If you have credibility, then it will speak for itself, with both your mentality and knowledge. Posting videos, and lengthy walls of text of alleged achievements comes across as pandering, and people generally have better things to do with their time. The reason nobody cares is because you aren't really doing it in earnest. Now, if you wanted to have a valid discussion around a finding you had with, say, crafting or gathering or even PvP for that matter, then people would be inclined to care. But why should I personally care for a Pteranodon, or a double Saint of Firmament (Which I also have, and don't find impressive, and yes I scored 500K+ on the first ranked season for it) - When the intent comes across as "Hey, I'm flexing on you, because I think I am superior" - This is why people don't care, lol.

3) Even if you weren't responsible, you were very much contributory. I mean this politely, but you essentially went on a several sentence paragraph, listing achievements as though it's mean to be imposing or remotely intimidating for that matter.

[Mortex]

Bro just in general any role thinking they are so super important like you can slow pull and do bosses pretty sure without any role involved doesn’t matter if it’s dps, tank or healer. Like some people really need to pull that stick out the butt and start doing minimal basic job functions and stop having hissy fits over every little small thing.

[Bhearil]

(I'm not reading all 44 pages of this, just going to talk about the subject with no regard for the above)

No matter the game, I play tanks, and it's the same everywhere. Someone that didn't pick a tank role decides they need to rush me in ways that I actually cannot keep up with, but am expected to. I remember I was with a duo que, the healer and a ninja. The ninja jumped forward into a group, and being a ninja, they were fast, and then pulled them to a second group and jumped to a third group yet again. Obviously, clank clank here comes the tank, I try to get there on time. Ninja dies, I say "Please refrain from going faster than I can, even with sprint I can't keep up. I do wall to wall pulls, you don't need to rush this." Regardless of context, this is how I handle it. I didn't like that, but I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume you were just excited or something. This is how it should be handled... But sometimes it goes like this dungeon.

No comment. Okay, maybe they are using controller and don't want to type or something. Kill the boss. Ninja does the same thing again, I remove tank stance, you were warned. Ninja dies, but I do wall to wall pulls anyway. Healer says I need to be faster and it's greifing that I remove tank stance (Maybe it is, but it's griefing behave like that after I politely ask them not to). I am a Paladin, notably not a ninja, and cannot keep up as they are dashing forward. I say I can't, Ninja needs to stop dashing into things they clearly can't handle or leave and gear a tank. No comment. I mention I will not be saving them on the third strike.

Pull number three, Ninja does it again. I do not sprint. Healer is WHM, stuns the group while Ninja does damage. I do nothing, do not aggro anything, do not enter combat at all. I stand back. Healer uses Rescue. It doesn't work because I haven't hit anything. The RDM with us has also been super quiet, but seems to be on my side and is doing nothing, probably reading the room and waiting for me. Ninja dies, healer brings them to me, but I still don't enter combat, just dodge the attacks until healer is too close to death, then with tank stance off, finally AoE. Healer dies, tank stance on, and by virtue of being a WAR I tank the pull without a healer and the RDM starts to AoE with me. Healer cusses me out and leaves the dungeon, ninja follows suit.

So honestly, even though I don't say YPYT until you've been warned, when stuff like this happens, I can totally see a 0 tolerance policy being adopted for it. You just get sick of it because this stuff happens all the time. Especially with DPS players, they want things to go FAST FAST FAST with no regard for the other players in their game. It ruins our experience and I don't feel bad for your experience being ruined if you want to rush casual players. I don't even pull slow, I time my sprint for 2-5 seconds before entering combat to maximize my sprint distance and use my dashes straight into the enemies to get them as fast as possible. At that point it's not even patience, it's just disrespectful.

Besides, unless your tank is a Dark Knight, you're optional anyway! (A joke, but also kinda not really)

This is exactly the issue, is not that generally speaking tanks are fond of YPYT mentality its more of being a consecuence of players acting like jerks over and over until the tank loses their patience and decides to show them that actions carry consecuences and no one is here to contantly clean their messes despite repeated warnings

[Arrius]

Paladins don't have sprint or a gap closer?

TIL.

Not until Level 74, which is a very odd placement for a tank gap closer. Especially since the other ones get theirs in the middle 50's/early 60's.

When it comes to AoE rotations and gap closers they really need to streamline the access to them on all tank jobs, just like they did with the tank stance.

[LilyPendragon]

Not until Level 74, which is a very odd placement for a tank gap closer. Especially since the other ones get theirs in the middle 50's/early 60's.

They should really do something about that, from what I hear it makes pld londa miserable in 70 ultimates

[noelregnard]

I've already said all that can be said. But because mister "I'm the main character because I can solo HW content" is still around talking bs I'll just quote the most hilarious part they said in this thread

Living is a higher priority than keeping aggro. That is the bare minimum function needed in order to even do that job. If taking extra aggro means death, you don't do it. Same as IRL group combat tactics, if you are the frontline/defense, you do not go into compromising positions that don't let you fulfill your duty. If someone does something stupid/risky and acts on their own without running it by you or other members in the party, you do not compromise all of your current asset maintenance to try to compensate for that lone wolf action and potentially not do your job at all. You do what you are comfortable with, at your pace, and the group, realizing that are you important to their functionality, goes at your pace. Any decoy's, distractions, disabling technology used in operations follow the same protocol. You do not rush ahead of people in charge of providing a distraction in an operation, you do not rush ahead of people in charge of disabling defense systems, you do not rush ahead of decoys. You are not the group role that dictates the pace, you are not thee next step in the tactic that has been planned. You're the one deviating from the standard. The tank is staying with the original plan and letting you suicide and running it by command that you broke order and got killed.

You can't buy this kind of comedy gold with money

Oh yeah? How confident in that statement are you? Care to wager 25mil that if you spend 9 hours running leveling roullette while rainbowing tank jobs, that you can run the exact same mitigation rotation regardless of the dungeon and finish with 0 avoidable deaths at the end of the day?

Go run Stone Vigil as a GNB with a sprout WHM using Cure 1 and do the first wall to wall pull with Reprisal first, and then Arm's Length and come back to me.

4) Your opinion on YPYT is invalid. If you are a Trust NPC because that's how your friends taught you to be

1)
PLD = missing Clemency which was a massive game-changer in completing content with job utility, as well as every ability that's a group mitigation or damage transfer

When you have a situation that'll smack you and remind you of your role, then you get humble and stay behind the tank like you were supposed to be. You don't run savage or ultimate content and say "well i wanted to clear faster so I pulled" as a DPS. You only pull that stupid argument in a dungeon. You know your place, you just don't like being reminded of it.

1) The tank is the starting button. Without the tank's consent specifically, the group decision means nothing. You either find a tank that agrees with the timer, or you don't run. But as a tank, if I have a DPS or Healer that doesn't agree with a timer, they can be kicked and we can 7man a Savage. I can do trials, alliance raids, savage, some Ultimates without a care for what you or any specific person cares about. Body for body, you're flat out not as important. If every tank in the community said we're doing 10s timers for Savage or Ultimate content, guess what happens? 10s timers happen. Because worst case, tanks would wait until gear upgrades are available and 8 tank content like they did for Savage and Ultimate's already. But you won't find an 8 healers or 8 dps runs of the same content difficulty. And when people realize that, they'd rather cave to what the tank said than not have the highest gear and achievements they could.

1) Who can't live through tankbusters and would die? Healers and DPS. Who can't 8 role EVEN WITH THE GEAR UPGRADES? Healers and DPS. You will wait years beyond what we will to run the same content we're able to. Your job contribution toward a clear is flat out less.

That's funny. A NIN wants to talk. How much old content in extreme's and savages have you solo'd? Has there ever been a 8 nin raid run of a Savage or Ultimate? I know you'd be salty that you'd never be able to finish WoL no matter how much gear you had because your limit break is useless in 99% of content (better than the 100% with healers), but we don't have to bring up every shortcoming your job role has compared to tanks.

It matters in the context of the example. If tanks put their foot down against dps and healers in an argument about raids, noone would complete content if healers and dps didn't bend the knee. Nothing is being done at tier. Full healer groups are not clearing. Full dps groups are not clearing. Healer/dps hybrid groups are not clearing. Full tank groups are not clearing. Everything is going to be an expansion down and tanks would be the first one to complete said content and meet the dps and sustain requirements if there was a feud. And when they are the first to meet the threshold of said content that noone completed previously, people will bend the knee and listen to what the tanks wanted to do before they wait an entire expansion+ for their role to be able to do the same. Tanks are the leader/deciding factor inside of a raid. If you do not want to wait a stupid long time period to finish content, you will need a tank that agrees with your decisions about content.