You pull you tank question.

[VoidsentStatus]

Overall communication is what determines most of these. All except the act of YPYT which is an outright refusal to play their role.

1) If they didn't want big pulls, they'd make it known and have done that. Even just writing YPYT is an implied "I don't want big pulls, if you pull something that I don't, I'm not taking aggro." And letting you suicide isn't against TOS either. And if they did want big pulls, there's noone to report you to Square. Still a redundant statement.

2) The original argument post was someone stating that YPYT is against ToS, not that pulling extra is reportable.

3) Depending on how the wipe is caused yes. Same goes for raiding. You accidently hit rescue too many times and cause a wipe, reported. You repeatedly put high damage, wiping worthy mechanics on group members and you have chat disabled so you can focus, reported. A tank pulls every add in the first room of Aurum Vale knowing full well that no pug group can handle that amount of damage in and it causes the party to wipe repeatedly, especially after at least 1 person would realistically ask them to stop pulling all that aggro, reported.

4) Living is a higher priority than keeping aggro. That is the bare minimum function needed in order to even do that job. If taking extra aggro means death, you don't do it. Same as IRL group combat tactics, if you are the frontline/defense, you do not go into compromising positions that don't let you fulfill your duty. If someone does something stupid/risky and acts on their own without running it by you or other members in the party, you do not compromise all of your current asset maintenance to try to compensate for that lone wolf action and potentially not do your job at all. You do what you are comfortable with, at your pace, and the group, realizing that are you important to their functionality, goes at your pace. Any decoy's, distractions, disabling technology used in operations follow the same protocol. You do not rush ahead of people in charge of providing a distraction in an operation, you do not rush ahead of people in charge of disabling defense systems, you do not rush ahead of decoys. You are not the group role that dictates the pace, you are not the next step in the tactic that has been planned. You're the one deviating from the standard. The tank is staying with the original plan and letting you suicide and running it by command that you broke order and got killed.

[Abriael]

I actually forgot this part in my response earlier. The topic of is it against TOS is literally the topic of this thread.

The TOS doesn't exist for what you think it exists.

[Thurmnmurmn]

snip

1) I agree that it's against TOS when communicated.

2) You yourself are the one who used that part in TOS as an argument for why DPS is at fault.

You have 3 violations possible based on pulling adds and bringing them to a tank that doesn't want them.

3) which boils down to, communication.

4) Yeah living is a higher priority. Although I see living as meaning the party living. Everyone has a role to achieve that. You are not alone in a dungeon.

I will say that anytime I've seen someone use YPYT, they outright announce it. If they didn't say a word and let people die then no one would bat an eye until the DPS starts complaining about it. But straight up saying YPYT is admitting you aren't going to do a thing.

I will keep repeating it. Communicate. Stop with YPYT. All it's gonna do is put you in trouble and piss off other party members.

[DiaDeem]

Anyway, imagine being a decent reasonable human being.

[noelregnard]

Living is a higher priority than keeping aggro. That is the bare minimum function needed in order to even do that job. If taking extra aggro means death, you don't do it. Same as IRL group combat tactics, if you are the frontline/defense, you do not go into compromising positions that don't let you fulfill your duty. If someone does something stupid/risky and acts on their own without running it by you or other members in the party, you do not compromise all of your current asset maintenance to try to compensate for that lone wolf action and potentially not do your job at all. You do what you are comfortable with, at your pace, and the group, realizing that are you important to their functionality, goes at your pace. Any decoy's, distractions, disabling technology used in operations follow the same protocol. You do not rush ahead of people in charge of providing a distraction in an operation, you do not rush ahead of people in charge of disabling defense systems, you do not rush ahead of decoys. You are not the group role that dictates the pace, you are not thee next step in the tactic that has been planned. You're the one deviating from the standard. The tank is staying with the original plan and letting you suicide and running it by command that you broke order and got killed.

This is peak main character syndrome lmao, bro thinks he's in charge. This is some mall ninja, meal team six nonsense

[Thurmnmurmn]

Anyway, imagine being a decent reasonable human being.

I do want to mention, as I've yet to say anything about my own playstyle. I don't pull ahead myself and I generally try to wait for other party members when I'm the one tanking (as with anyone else, sometimes I'm on autopilot and don't notice).
I'm pushing for some healthy communication instead of resorting to terrible tactics like YPYT.

But this is going to be my last post on the topic as I'm sure some people are getting annoyed of seeing my name here.
I 100% agree with you. Treat others how you would like to be treated and don't respond hate with hate. <3

[VoidsentStatus]

.

2) "possible". Aka depending on the details and extra factors. That's why I listed 3 of them because they all vary slightly depending on the situation went down. If you had a situation where you asked them to not do big pulls, they replied and said you can handle it or something to that effect, and they tried to force it anyway, you'd run with compelling gameplay. If someone brought extra adds after you asked them not to, but didn't reply, and made you burn resources you didn't want to, gave you anxiety or some other unpleasant feeling for whatever reason, a GM would likely put you under obstructing gameplay instead (which is likely a warning or a caution violation where instructions for improvement are given instead of a suspension). And if neither of you type, and they pull they pull extra adds and you die, that could fall under MPK, especially if it happens multiple times. If neither side type at all and have no deaths, a GM likely won't act on the first report, but if there are several, it gets pushed up to a higher GM that'll step in game and ask for extra clarification and dig for more details.

4) Correct, but, in practice, there is a difference between 1 individual dying and 4 individuals dying. Depending on the skill and reaction time of the healers and dps's along with the add damage in, a tank death is a group wipe while a solo dps death is just them having to run back. That's minimizing risk. A tank's job is to take aggro from enemies as the group clear out the rooms, not to babysit a dps that runs anywhere he wants on the map taking any amount of aggro he wants without a care of how I feel about it. Saying every single person from death in every situation is not the goal. Same goes for healing. If you had a afk tank after the boss and a dps runs off to gather the next 9 adds, that's not in the healer's job description to sprint off to save the dps that ignored the tank being afk, that is likely going to die, and then because of the heals, would have the healer die afterward. There's always context to your role.

YPYT does start arguments, which is why I don't recommend saying it because most don't have people with GM friends and a lot of direct GM interactions that they've had to understand how to avoid wordings that can become violations even if the action itself isn't a violation. You can get the same message across to the DPS without having to tie toe on ToS. All that argument is gonna do is spur insults, lead to someone being kicked, or the group telling the DPS to stay behind the tank. And out of those variations, if they decide to kick you for single targeting 3-6 adds at a time and not pulling aggro from the lone wolf DPS, you have an argument for an Unjustified Vote to Kick violation since the feature is only meant for AFK and harassment per the Game Manual description.

[LilyPendragon]

This is peak main character syndrome lmao, bro thinks he's in charge. This is some mall ninja, meal team six nonsense

Yeah like bro it's not that deep. It's casual content in a catgirl dress up game

[VoidsentStatus]

This is peak main character syndrome lmao, bro thinks he's in charge. This is some mall ninja, meal team six nonsense

Main character syndome that the entire group acknowledges before the add grouping process starts and at the boss. They just magically turn that awareness off if they get impatient and they find a small window to make the tank do something they don't want to. You'll never see a healer or dps starting a raid boss and noone complains in chat when they start getting smacked and 2-3shotted and tankbusters go out for 1shots because you didn't let the tank start. When you have a situation that'll smack you and remind you of your role, then you get humble and stay behind the tank like you were supposed to be. You don't run savage or ultimate content and say "well i wanted to clear faster so I pulled" as a DPS. You only pull that stupid argument in a dungeon. You know your place, you just don't like being reminded of it.

[LilyPendragon]

Main character syndome that the entire group acknowledges before the add grouping process starts and at the boss.

The group may acknowledge that the tank has main character syndrome, but nobody agrees the tank is the main character, what sort of delusional nonsense is this?

After all everybody knows that I am the main character