#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[KitiaraIornsight]

So when is Esuna ever useful? As far as I know all debuffs in dungeons or raids are uncleansable. I mean I can understand the vuln stacks, but everything else? What's the point of keeping a cleansing skill if there's nothing to cleanse except the odd overworld paralysis or Bad Breath?

...I miss Warden's Paean on Dooms in Dun Scaith.

Um… many instances of poison, doom, paralyze, etc are esunable even in current content ….. so much so the literal healer role quest this expansion was a big reminder that it exists and to use it.

[BunnyQueen]

They really need to make healers needed in normal dungeons. The fact that healers have to run savages and ultimates in order to play their role to retarded as F. They need to make it so healing is hard required in normal dungeons. Period.

[Shurrikhan]

they do that to make content artificially harder. A lot of debuffs could easily be made cleansable

It's not only to be harder, "artificially" or otherwise. Not that vulnerability up debuffs or damage down debuffs are good for the game, but different debuffs reorient permissible means of rDPS gains and the costs of failure and who more tangibly needs to respond to them.

The first implementations of such debuffs are actually one of the rare cases where the response was pretty close to community requests. "My party members won't bother to move out of AoEs and just expect me to heal them through everything and blame me when I finally oom and we then wipe due to their negligence" led first to "This will eventually kill you, so dodge" and then to "You literally cannot fully greed this; if you don't dodge, you lose damage even if it won't eventually kill you."

The problem is that the issues should have been resolved with better learning systems and clarifications of the ToA, but that was a time of peak protection for lethargic or even leeching play (asking players to contribute would be trying to force a different play style on them and therefore reportable, but refusing to do anything would simply be a difference in play style which is kickable but never reportable") and XIV and well-devised learning systems have never gone together.
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As for cleansing mechanics, though, I'm honestly glad most damage over time effects are not cleansible, as they reduce our usually dozen+ responses and interactions between it and other damage sources... with the single and spammable "undo mechanic" button.

By all means, I'd love to see more to cleanse outside of just the Role Quests and older content, but that should be by adding more debuffs, not by shifting them to be yet more easily dealt with; I prefer that Doom and DoTs be handled by actual healing.
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Final Tangent: I'm actually totally fine with good parties with at least half of players with cross-role capacities not needing healers in fairly casual content, but I do think DPS sustain should be more pressed outside of just unavoidable boss AoEs (including stack markers). Ideally, I'd have dungeons simply and pretty automatically assign categories to each enemy action and scale those outputs, count, and frequencies with one's role composition and give non-tanks, too, a Provoke+lingering_enmity_multiplier.

Want to run the dungeon with 4 DPS? It'll require arguably more complex tanking (via kiting, splitting, and rotating who's being targeted) than when on a tank and stricter healing CD schedules than when on a healer and stricter meeting of DPS checks and dodges than in a standard comp, but it'd be doable. And with that, you reduce the forced-to-take-anyways privilege for complacent design.

[Local_Custard]

It's not only to be harder, "artificially" or otherwise. Not that vulnerability up debuffs or damage down debuffs are good for the game, but different debuffs reorient permissible means of rDPS gains and the costs of failure and who more tangibly needs to respond to them.

The first implementations of such debuffs are actually one of the rare cases where the response was pretty close to community requests. "My party members won't bother to move out of AoEs and just expect me to heal them through everything and blame me when I finally oom and we then wipe due to their negligence" led first to "This will eventually kill you, so dodge" and then to "You literally cannot fully greed this; if you don't dodge, you lose damage even if it won't eventually kill you."

The problem is that the issues should have been resolved with better learning systems and clarifications of the ToA, but that was a time of peak protection for lethargic or even leeching play (asking players to contribute would be trying to force a different play style on them and therefore reportable, but refusing to do anything would simply be a difference in play style which is kickable but never reportable") and XIV and well-devised learning systems have never gone together.

As for cleansing mechanics, though, I'm honestly glad most damage over time effects are not cleansible, as they reduce our usually dozen+ responses and interactions between it and other damage sources... with the single and spammable "undo mechanic" button.

good point. Though, I do feel that maybe there are too many uncleansable debuffs. The devs could probably go back through content and make some debuffs cleansable

[Striker44]

They really need to make healers needed in normal dungeons. The fact that healers have to run savages and ultimates in order to play their role to retarded as F. They need to make it so healing is hard required in normal dungeons. Period.

It already is, though, if you're running typical content with a typical DF group. That's where a key issue comes in - there is a significant disparity in skill across the massive size of the playerbase. "Normal" content has to be reasonably clearable by the low end of that pool. It's why a variety of increasingly more difficult content is then created on top of that "normal" level, so that players of successively higher skill have progressively harder content to engage with.

[BunnyQueen]

It already is, though, if you're running typical content with a typical DF group. That's where a key issue comes in - there is a significant disparity in skill across the massive size of the playerbase. "Normal" content has to be reasonably clearable by the low end of that pool. It's why a variety of increasingly more difficult content is then created on top of that "normal" level, so that players of successively higher skill have progressively harder content to engage with.

"Clearable by the low end of the pool." That would be a reasonable argument if a one armed player like me required consistent healing, but I don't, I have cleared content while my healer dpsed the whole way through and didn't get to heal. Your argument hold no water in this instance because I am a bottom of the barrel tank and can still do it healerless.

[Isala]

It already is, though, if you're running typical content with a typical DF group. That's where a key issue comes in - there is a significant disparity in skill across the massive size of the playerbase. "Normal" content has to be reasonably clearable by the low end of that pool. It's why a variety of increasingly more difficult content is then created on top of that "normal" level, so that players of successively higher skill have progressively harder content to engage with.

They're really not. I can count on one hand the amount of groups I've had that didn't clear a dungeon after the healer died. The average DF group is a lot more competent at doing at least the basics than you, and for that matter, SE, realize. Now, I'm not going to say they're necessarily "great" players. Some of them really cannot spell DPS, or find a cooldown to save their ass. But even the most paint eating tank is still capable of living through several mistakes, and bringing the DPS along with them for the ride.

[sweetietreat]

The strike is working as intended.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...is_astounding/

Kinda funny to see some of the mental gymnastics though. Surely Dawntrail is too hard so instead of striking, those healers just straight up quit! /s

Keep it up fellow strikers.

The post specifically said good healers, though.

[BunnyQueen]

They're really not. I can count on one hand the amount of groups I've had that didn't clear a dungeon after the healer died. The average DF group is a lot more competent at doing at least the basics than you, and for that matter, SE, realize. Now, I'm not going to say they're necessarily "great" players. Some of them really cannot spell DPS, or find a cooldown to save their ass. But even the most paint eating tank is still capable of living through several mistakes, and bringing the DPS along with them for the ride.

Isn't it more fun to sniff the paint?

[Galvuu]

The post specifically said good healers, though.

I'm not claiming the issue highlighted in the post is due to the strike or not, but at the very least, if the healer role is languishing in this dull state, you'd expect the good players to be the best to jump ship.
Which seems to be what's been happening for a while now.