#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Shurrikhan]

The thing about the healer strike that confuses me, didn't healers have more DPS buttons to press back in the day like sch or had more things to engage with such as cleric stance and astro cards? Wasn't healing not as easy for the masses due to cleric stance, and tanks using dps accessories and tanking in dps stance so aggro was more of a group effort.

Overall the game had more engagement back in the day but didn't people complain?

I can't remember hearing any complaints about damage actions save for Holy taking a whopping 2 seconds for its stun to actually go off. That is, until Stormblood, when the first (comparatively small) wave of pruning came through. I can remember significant hype for the added damage actions in Heavensward, however.

As for Cleric Stance, it was bad as implemented. It was designed as a lock-in instead of an actual cooldown, frequently double-cast itself due to latency when attempting to cancel it, and offered only 1 GCD's more commitment than just... not having it at all.

But "clunky due to struggling with terrible netcode amid other oddities" does not make a "we want fewer DPS actions / less downtime engagement". Just like "we'd really like the arbitrary roundtrip ping cost to uptime and ability to double-press a mudra in combat removed so that anyone and everyone can actually weave these skills as intended, instead of only players playing on fiber from within Japan" does not make a "We want the majority of NIN's oGCD button-presses removed," nor "We want at least occasional reason for X job to be taken over the generally dominant job in its role" make a "We want homogeneity." At this point, the devs' job reworks have often required need a Wikipedia game's worth of efforts just to arrive at relevance to the details of players' complaints.

[Wildheaven182]

This is exactly what happened. This is why the devs should not listen to the forums for feedback because the players who make these complaints are the overwhelming minority, notwithstanding they also have terrible ideas and only act in the present. Yoshi even alluded to this a few times in live letters that the players are insatiable in demands and constantly switch up on the devs. Just like how in EW pre DT, several people on the forums were saying how much they wanted to take a backseat and not be the "savior" after the Hydaelyn-Zodiark arc and were looking forward to just enjoying the scenery and taking a back seat...

Low and behold, devs give them exactly that and people complain lmao.

The XIV forums are a never ending cycle of memes.

It's up to the developers to gauge feedback. All feedback everywhere in the entire universe of human civilization is given by a minority. It's impossible to poll an entire large population.
But a minority giving feedback doesn't mean it's incorrect any more than it means it is correct, or agreed or disagreed upon by the rest of the population.

Being put on a backseat is one thing, but taking a backseat can be done well or badly. People obviously wanted to take the backseat in a well executed manner. People do not seem to think DT put the player character in a backseat role well, so you can say it was hypocritical, but it's like saying you'd like cake and you are served cake but it's very bad cake with grainy texture, falls apart, isn't sweet, and gives you the runs.

This thread is kind of like a FF fans use your brain challenge. This isn't hard to understand nuance and judgement.
I suppose squex has been cultivating a fanbase of braindead fanboys for decades now though... It's important to keep standards low to continue developing with low quality.

[Evergrey]

This is exactly what happened. This is why the devs should not listen to the forums for feedback because the players who make these complaints are the overwhelming minority, notwithstanding they also have terrible ideas and only act in the present. Yoshi even alluded to this a few times in live letters that the players are insatiable in demands and constantly switch up on the devs. Just like how in EW pre DT, several people on the forums were saying how much they wanted to take a backseat and not be the "savior" after the Hydaelyn-Zodiark arc and were looking forward to just enjoying the scenery and taking a back seat...

Low and behold, devs give them exactly that and people complain lmao.

The XIV forums are a never ending cycle of memes.

Mm.. People are far too demanding on how they think things should be.
And most probably don't even think of what consequences it could bring but only seeing the "issue" before them.

Like healers back in the days complaining about not wanting to DPS, it's not why they are playing healers.
Sure it's not a healers job to act as a DPS. And it might've worked, in a different game.
FFXIV combat system is slow and pretty much any attack that isn't a single target is marked so people easily can avoid it.
So with such a slow, easy to avoid combat system, what does that leave a healer with not much to heal and not much to attack with while waiting for someone to make a mistake so they can heal some more.

Edit:
Heck, one didn't even have to ponder over the consequences, the signs were clear as day even then.
Healers who didn't want to DPS simply stood and did nothing, while waiting for something to heal. That was their way of protesting.
And this brought toxic interactions in parties where members complained to the healers for not DPS'ing when they have those skills and the Healers refused as they wanted to play the role that they were signing up to do.
And since this only brought more and more toxicity in the community SE probably didn't have any other choice but to take away offensive skills from the Healers arsenal.
That way people couldn't complain that they didn't attack as they didn't have such capabilities anymore and Healers could play the role they wanted to play, a Healer.

[Havenchild]

Mm.. People are far too demanding on how they think things should be.
And most probably don't even think of what consequences it could bring but only seeing the "issue" before them.

Like healers back in the days complaining about not wanting to DPS, it's not why they are playing healers.
Sure it's not a healers job to act as a DPS. And it might've worked, in a different game.
FFXIV combat system is slow and pretty much any attack that isn't a single target is marked so people easily can avoid it.
So with such a slow, easy to avoid combat system, what does that leave a healer with not much to heal and not much to attack with while waiting for someone to make a mistake so they can heal some more.

See I understand the point being made and I see the good behind it.

But I am also very clearly able to see the bad around it, which these forums tend to overwhelming ignore the very overt consequences of their suggestions. This is the problem with XIV forums. No one seems to suggest balanced takes. It's all several deep-end changes that outside of their own playstyle bubble, they refuse to understand how it effects the greater player base. Majority of the suggestions I've seen in this thread for example would decimate the Healer population in PF. This goes to show the average forum goer in their hyper optimized statics does not understand the situation in PF enough to know that asking anything more from Healers is a huge no go.

Things should change sure but in order to get the change that some people want, you'd have to change all roles, and overall the battle system of the game to disperse responsibilities throughout. An expansion worthy task. Come back in 2 years basically

[Aravell]

I really, really hate the argument of "You healers asked for this, you got what you want, and now you're complaining!?", I have to keep reminding people that we are NOT a hivemind, most of us DIDN'T ask for this, most of us were AGAINST this, actually.

I've never seen a single healer main back then who asked for our entire kit to be gutted into the worst healer design in the history of games. I have, however, seen tank and DPS mains who complain about healers not healing them and getting antsy about sitting at 90% HP. Of course, SE has to heed their precious DPS players and destroy the healers for them, because apparently if you have a green icon, you're not allowed to have fun.

[Naychan]

Like healers back in the days complaining about not wanting to DPS, it's not why they are playing healers.

Seriously? They didn’t dps at all? I would have voted to kick them on the spot. Thats beyond lazy for the amount of healing downtime this game has.

[Evergrey]

Seriously? They didn’t dps at all? I would have voted to kick them on the spot. Thats beyond lazy for the amount of healing downtime this game has.

Yeah, there were those who simply didn't do anything if there wasn't anything to heal.
Some were probably kicked due to it ofc.
But there were ofc those who argued against it, saying that kicking them would be an act of Prohibited Activities, like:

• Unjustified usage of Vote Dismiss --Kicking someone despite they're playing their role (Healer (not a dps))
• Expressions that compel a playing style --"I'm playing a healer not a Green DPS. You don't pay my sub!"
• Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc. --Keeping someone from progressing/partaking in the game.

There are probably more that could be used, but you get the drift.
FFXIV players are quick to bring stuff like this up whenever anyone has anything against someone pretty much.

And that was what Yoshi mentioned when speaking of not adding more offensive skills in that pre-EW interview. As it would put pressure on the healers from the other group members to use them, where from history that didn't really work out too well.

[Bobby66]

I can't remember hearing any complaints about damage actions save for Holy taking a whopping 2 seconds for its stun to actually go off. That is, until Stormblood, when the first (comparatively small) wave of pruning came through. I can remember significant hype for the added damage actions in Heavensward, however.

As for Cleric Stance, it was bad as implemented. It was designed as a lock-in instead of an actual cooldown, frequently double-cast itself due to latency when attempting to cancel it, and offered only 1 GCD's more commitment than just... not having it at all.

But "clunky due to struggling with terrible netcode amid other oddities" does not make a "we want fewer DPS actions / less downtime engagement". Just like "we'd really like the arbitrary roundtrip ping cost to uptime and ability to double-press a mudra in combat removed so that anyone and everyone can actually weave these skills as intended, instead of only players playing on fiber from within Japan" does not make a "We want the majority of NIN's oGCD button-presses removed," nor "We want at least occasional reason for X job to be taken over the generally dominant job in its role" make a "We want homogeneity." At this point, the devs' job reworks have often required need a Wikipedia game's worth of efforts just to arrive at relevance to the details of players' complaints.

Cleric stance was fun for what it was. Could it have been implemented better sure, but we both know that is not what was asked or how people viewed cleric stance. People wanted it gone. It was far from perfect but it was something that was fun to as a causal healer to maximize. Added a sense of growth on my part even if it was kind of an illusion, I liked to see how I could each clear I would have higher overall DPS. It was fun. Reality is different many did not like it and complained and found it unnecessary. It led to many wipes I am 100% guilty of it myself. I killed many groups due to tunnel vision.

DPS would complain about tanks in dps stance but would not use their aggro dumps, healers would complain how tanks were annoying to heal because the HP was smaller since they used dps accessories, healers complained about having to do damage and just stood around. Every role has complained, and let us be real the "technical" issues barely impact cast majority of players. Hell most players are unable to even keep their GCD rolling, let alone double weave.

Track record of SE complain about something it gets gutted. I miss old smn not once did I complain about it, but alas the majority did and bam my main since HW was wrecked for me personally.

[Bobby66]

Seriously? They didn’t dps at all? I would have voted to kick them on the spot. Thats beyond lazy for the amount of healing downtime this game has.

Sadly, this was a thing.

I really, really hate the argument of "You healers asked for this, you got what you want, and now you're complaining!?", I have to keep reminding people that we are NOT a hivemind, most of us DIDN'T ask for this, most of us were AGAINST this, actually.

I've never seen a single healer main back then who asked for our entire kit to be gutted into the worst healer design in the history of games. I have, however, seen tank and DPS mains who complain about healers not healing them and getting antsy about sitting at 90% HP. Of course, SE has to heed their precious DPS players and destroy the healers for them, because apparently if you have a green icon, you're not allowed to have fun.

Come on you know this is not true, many healers back in the day complained about how they spent more time doing damage verse healing and how they wanted more healing actions. The rolled healer to heal not dps etc... Also it was healer players that complained tanks were annoying to heal due to smaller HP cause of DPS accessory usage. Just like dps did complain about aggro because many did refuse to use their aggro dump even if it was ogcd. Sure cases like bard and stuff were annoying and possible to rip aggro off at the start of their opener.

Complaints come form both sides but it does make more sense to cater to the larger demographic. I say this as a SMN main since HW. I miss my old smn but majority did not like it so it makes sense to turn it into something more people will play. They are just doing the same with healers and unfort I bet their data will show the strike has not had a major impact to healer numbers.

[Havenchild]

Seriously? They didn’t dps at all? I would have voted to kick them on the spot. Thats beyond lazy for the amount of healing downtime this game has.

And that's actually reportable for abusing the report system. So you'd houdini yourself for toxic behavior. Congrats.