#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Jojoya]

Why does "everyone" have to be pleased?

Why do the strikers feel that they are the ones that have to be pleased?

You would think that after 6 years of no response to complaints they would have gotten the message. SE isn't interested in making the changes that have been getting requested.

Personally I think that's a shame because there is room in encounter design to make a more interesting healing experience (and that doesn't mean adding more buttons to press whether damage or healing). But it's SE's game and SE's choice. They feel their current design is the best compromise to satisfy the general healing community for the game.

So if the strikers aren't pleased, they need to understand that this time they're the ones filling that gap where the inevitable few who aren't pleased end up.

Strange how they're okay with some players being left unpleased as long as they aren't those players. A bit hypocritical, isn't it?

[LyraShu]

You would think that after 6 years of no response to complaints they would have gotten the message. SE isn't interested in making the changes that have been getting requested.

Tbh, if SE actually gave a response that said "We don't want to change the healers for X reason" then I would jump off this "boat" and be ok with it. But I think that is the issue, we have gotten NO reasoning behind jobs. I don't think it is necessarily fair to point your playerbase to a forum also and say "we want your feedback", and then also just never acknowledge the feedback.

I mean hell, they are wanting to change Viper after only a week or so being available to people! What was the reason we got? Because it was to "busy"? And what do those changes entail? I have seen quite a few people talk about their displeasure with this and want nothing more then an explanation past a vague response, are they in the same boat as the healerstrike now??? (sarcasm, but I hope the small point there stands)

My long and short is really, I know myself and a few strikers I have seen post would "be quiet" if we actually got a response instead of the void. We fight stuff like the void away as WoL so it's kinda ingrained in us (bad attempt at joke haha)

[aiqa]

snip

You can apply that argument to any request for change. Most feedback is requesting some sort of change. And still the devs explicitly ask players to post feedback on the forums.

It's not the responsibility of people requesting changes to weight their own opinion against the assumed opinions of the few million other FF players. And setting a requirement that every single person has to be happy with a change to the game is completely unreasonble. With that requirement the game can't ever be changed in any way.

[IDontPetLalas]

Why do the strikers feel that they are the ones that have to be pleased?

You would think that after 6 years of no response to complaints they would have gotten the message. SE isn't interested in making the changes that have been getting requested.

Personally I think that's a shame because there is room in encounter design to make a more interesting healing experience (and that doesn't mean adding more buttons to press whether damage or healing). But it's SE's game and SE's choice. They feel their current design is the best compromise to satisfy the general healing community for the game.

So if the strikers aren't pleased, they need to understand that this time they're the ones filling that gap where the inevitable few who aren't pleased end up.

Strange how they're okay with some players being left unpleased as long as they aren't those players. A bit hypocritical, isn't it?

First of all, it isn't Square's game. Yes, I realize that they own the rights to it, however just as I do not own a single pixel, neither does any developer own anything, regardless of how much blood, sweat and tears they put into their work. If people don't sub, all of their work is moot.

Secondly, I don't find it productive to accuse people of hypocrisy. Neither you nor I know who would be happy with future changes, I find those people who make a effort to discuss and propose changes , and invest their time to try to find common ground, to have a much more positive and productive attitude.

[GinzoKazama]

I think it's more about that the people in this strike are likely the minority and SE is going to focus on ensuring the quality of the game is well received by the greatest majority of the players. Consider that if every reply in this thread was of a unique person who supported the strike, that would come out to 6720 people (10 people per page). Across 89 servers, that's 75.5 people per server striking. Now I don't believe the striking group is anywhere near 6720 people, but there's two glaring issues people here and elsewhere seem to ignore.

1) The constant DPS race raid format. Many of the top players like that, so Healers have been engineered to suit that scene more than anything. If healers were made to be too 'hard' or 'challenging' then the healing pool drops significantly and players participating in raiding is hurt in general.

2) Most of the changes being asked for is based on subjective playing ability. I personally dislike healing for other reasons, but having to clear DPS checks AND cover for everyone who can't avoid taking damage when the meme of the game is 'healers adjust' is a nightmare. So I stick to tanking, which I feel is way easier but others feel tanking is harder. Healers are the way they are because no one liked the old original format back in ARR and it evolved into what it is today because people kept asking for simpler homogenized jobs. If they make things harder, you cut out more people than you're welcoming in.

I think the two best solutions to this problem is to change the end game raid format from less oriented on DPS races to more mechanically driven fights and also make jobs a bit more versatile depending on the situation. For example, I liked how Baldesion Arsenal was set up in that it was more of the traditional raid style seen in something like WoW. The only issue with trash mobs is that XIVs loot system is woefully lacking so there's no point in fighting trash mobs in the current setup. (Would be nice to get items to craft good loot from raids and can also help improve crafting).

Anyway, I think there's a lot of things that'd have to be changed at the end game level that SE is highly unlikely to do because of how much would have to be changed to jazz things up.

[aiqa]

I think it's more about that the people in this strike are likely the minority and SE is going to focus on ensuring the quality of the game is well received by the greatest majority of the players. Consider that if every reply in this thread was of a unique person who supported the strike, that would come out to 6720 people (10 people per page). Across 89 servers, that's 75.5 people per server striking. Now I don't believe the striking group is anywhere near 6720 people, but there's two glaring issues people here and elsewhere seem to ignore.

Anyone who has ever requested any change for any game on any forum was in the minority. That is not a valid counter to any feedback.

1) The constant DPS race raid format. Many of the top players like that so Healers have been engineered to suit that scene more than anything. If healers were made to be too 'hard' or 'challenging' then the healing pool drops significantly and players participating in raiding is hurt in general.

2) Most of the changes being asked for is based on subjective playing ability. I personally dislike healing for other reasons, but having to clear DPS checks AND cover for everyone who can't avoid taking damage when the meme of the game is 'healers adjust' is a nightmare. So I stick to tanking, which I feel is way easier but others feel tanking is harder. Healers are the way they are because no one liked the old original format back in ARR and it evolved into what it is today because people kept asking for simpler homogenized jobs. If they make things harder, you cut out more people than you're welcoming in.

There is room to make dps buttons more interesting then using 1 button 70% of the time, without going overboard and overwhelming players.

I think the two best solutions to this problem is to change the end game raid format from less oriented on DPS races to more mechanically driven fights and also make jobs a bit more versatile depending on the situation. For example, I liked how Baldesion Arsenal was set up in that it was more of the traditional raid style seen in something like WoW. The only issue with trash mobs is that XIVs loot system is woefully lacking so there's no point in fighting trash mobs in the current setup. (Would be nice to get items to craft good loot from raids and can also help improve crafting).

There are other issues with healers besides dps buttons. And gimmicks in specific fights are not a good replacement for a solid base for requiring roles. The trinity could be that solid base, but it's to diluted in FF.

Anyway, I think there's a lot of things that'd have to be changed at the end game level that SE is highly unlikely to do because of how much would have to be changed to jazz things up.

Some more dps button variation wouldn't need extensive rebalancing of end game. More unavoidable damage wouldn't require extensive rebalancing of end game. Lowering WAR healing so it doesn't rival healers wouldn't requiring extensive rebalancing of end game.

[Reinha]

One group wants there to be more to heal via more damage output by enemies, another group wants it by reducing healing/self-sustain by other roles, and yet others aren't talking about healing at all but want full DPS rotations on healers. Without a common goal, it just devolves into a classic case of "no matter what you do, you can't please everyone."

I hope you realise it's possible to adjust mob damage, healer abilities and other roles' abilities independently from one another or at the same time. Each are a part of the goals listed in the manifesto. Can you read five bullet points or does it need to be condensed further for you?

[Supersnow845]

Do people see the issue I was trying to point out a few pages ago

Using them as examples sindri said that it’s always good to take feedback on board from multiple different sources and to channel ideas about changing multiple things while striker has said that since we don’t all ask for the same thing the strike is unfocused and directionless and then dimenital is basically just saying put up and shut up

This is the problem with the whole “the strike has an image problem” idea people keep bringing up. The people who oppose the strike don’t even have a unified idea on what the strike is doing wrong or what it should be either. Some are saying “you are striking for the wrong thing” others are saying striking is a stupid concept in general, some think the answer is still calmly talking problems out with nice words on the healer forums

Honestly if people are going to complain that the strike has bad optics or that we are doing it wrong can you at least make up your minds on how we are doing it wrong

[Zaytex]

For those who are wondering about how healing feels to play in the latest high-end content. I've now progged and cleared EX1 as WHM and I can say for certain the core issues with the role remain the same (wow, who would've guessed?)

Progging is extremely fun, managing your cooldowns, triage healing and figuring out where you need to put your resources whilst maximising your damage and figuring out the sweet spot of how much you can get away with - all very enjoyable.

However.. as soon the prog is over, this role is fucking miserable. I am on my 5th reclear of EX1 as WHM and I am already bored. I've already figured out how the healing needs to be done, so there is nothing left for me to do now. Just 1111121111 mindlessly and nothing else.

This is what healer is now, it's just a prog job/role. You play it for prog, and then switch off it immediately. In ShB/EW I at least had AST which offered more to optimise and figure out due to the card system and how its healing is genuinely more nuanced than any other healer... but they reworked it, so I don't even have that anymore.

This is it folks, this role is unplayable to any non-lobotomized player in casual or re-clears, just play it for prog, and move on.

[Teno]

I think that's part of where the issue is. There is no common goal here. You have some people claiming the strike is to convince the dev team to make changes to the game, and others just as adamantly claiming it's not about making changes at all. And even among the ones that want changes, there's no agreement on what that should be. One group wants there to be more to heal via more damage output by enemies, another group wants it by reducing healing/self-sustain by other roles, and yet others aren't talking about healing at all but want full DPS rotations on healers. Without a common goal, it just devolves into a classic case of "no matter what you do, you can't please everyone."

Dude stop please, you're just skipping years of discussion, or rather, you just don't know yet do as if. Options to please all sides have already been discussed and proposed countless times over the last few years. There's no such distinction as 3 groups, or rather, only JP advocates for full healing. And if people ever wanted full healing/adjusted encounters, it was back during ARR/HW when it was fresh. Then it became evident that FFXIV was just not the game for that, and it's not built like that either.

Besides, you missed the mark entirely. People don't want "full dps rotations", they want more offensive options and alternatives. Sage like in pvp, scholar like what existed just a few years ago (which is nothing crazy to begin with).