#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kazmarek]

The tank has more HP and is tankier because they are supposed to be walloped by the boss, not just shrug everything off with zero effort because the boss is doing anything

So at the start of Endwalker, my friend (a white mage) and I queued into the Dead Ends. He disconnected on the final boss, right at the start. This was in the time period where if you got disconnected, you'd be waiting an hour+ to get back into the game. So he's gone, the two dps go down. The boss is at roughly 60%. I tell them I think I can do it, and ask for permission. They tell me to go for it, so I did, and I finished the instance.

This is all to ask you, genuinely, have you ever done it yourself? Soloed a boss on a tank? Because there was not "zero effort" that went into that example. I was considering my options, I had to carefully pick which mit to use where, where to use my invuln, how to use my heals. I was genuinely focused and had to actually think about that attempt. So I want to ask you, not as a "gotcha," not to be rude, but genuinely, have you ever done it yourself? Because if you have and it really was "zero effort" to do so, then I guess I just overcomplicated the entire attempt for no real reason.

I said the healers died and the rest of the dps died to raidwide because the tank did nothing to keep them alive. I've seen PLDs solo or duo heal fights when the healers wipe early (I main PLD and its what I always do). When I'm on DPS and healers go down WARs never even try. They're all such great players like you.

My mistake for misremembering, then. Those don't sound like good WARs to me. If the healers go down, I at least try to keep my dps alive. It's not easy though, it's really not. I've got nascent flash, I've got shake it off, and I've got reprisal. Nascent flash/bloodwhetting really isn't as good on single targets as people are making it out to be. It's good, don't get me wrong, but it's not that good.

Edit just to add more thoughts, I think part of the reason it feels like there's not a whole lot of damage going out is just because ilvl restrictions are too lax. The best gear right now is ilvl 660 (except the weapon being 665 but we'll skip that) and the latest dungeon of the game has an ilvl requirement of 620. So if you went in min ilvl, you'd probably have a different experience, though I haven't tested it myself. Reasonably, you'll probably be going in with people not much lower than ilvl 640, meaning "at worst" they've already got 20 ilvls of gear more than the requirement, or 40 ilvls more "at best." That's... a lot of extra ilvl. The latest alliance raid is average ilvl 625. So again, you can easily have people coming in with 35 more ilvls than the requirement. Both of the latest trials also have ilvl requirements of 625, meaning, once again, you're almost certain to have way more gear than is required.

[Supersnow845]

So at the start of Endwalker, my friend (a white mage) and I queued into the Dead Ends. He disconnected on the final boss, right at the start. This was in the time period where if you got disconnected, you'd be waiting an hour+ to get back into the game. So he's gone, the two dps go down. The boss is at roughly 60%. I tell them I think I can do it, and ask for permission. They tell me to go for it, so I did, and I finished the instance.

This is all to ask you, genuinely, have you ever done it yourself? Soloed a boss on a tank? Because there was not "zero effort" that went into that example. I was considering my options, I had to carefully pick which mit to use where, where to use my invuln, how to use my heals. I was genuinely focused and had to actually think about that attempt. So I want to ask you, not as a "gotcha," not to be rude, but genuinely, have you ever done it yourself? Because if you have and it really was "zero effort" to do so, then I guess I just overcomplicated the entire attempt for no real reason.



My mistake for misremembering, then. Those don't sound like good WARs to me. If the healers go down, I at least try to keep my dps alive. It's not easy though, it's really not. I've got nascent flash, I've got shake it off, and I've got reprisal. Nascent flash/bloodwhetting really isn't as good on single targets as people are making it out to be. It's good, don't get me wrong, but it's not that good.

I wouldn’t say it’s zero effort but it’s as close to it as you can really do without it being no effort

Basically to me any dungeon boss can be soloed by WAR simply by pressing bloodwhetting near on CD (or holding it for like 5 seconds if a TB is coming) rotate your other mitigations and be liberal with equilibrium useage. In PLD it’s a little bit harder as you may need to drop a burst phase to hold for clemency but that’s a rarity

And of course this is when I don’t have gear. If I go into say aetherfont now on the final boss I just plant myself in one spot and press holy Shelton on CD and I don’t even come close to dying

To me the prospect is just way too easy and I don’t find it particularly hard to keep up a DPS either by sharing my mitigations

[OdinelStarrei]

So at the start of Endwalker, my friend (a white mage) and I queued into the Dead Ends. He disconnected on the final boss, right at the start. This was in the time period where if you got disconnected, you'd be waiting an hour+ to get back into the game. So he's gone, the two dps go down. The boss is at roughly 60%. I tell them I think I can do it, and ask for permission. They tell me to go for it, so I did, and I finished the instance.

This is all to ask you, genuinely, have you ever done it yourself? Soloed a boss on a tank? Because there was not "zero effort" that went into that example. I was considering my options, I had to carefully pick which mit to use where, where to use my invuln, how to use my heals. I was genuinely focused and had to actually think about that attempt. So I want to ask you, not as a "gotcha," not to be rude, but genuinely, have you ever done it yourself? Because if you have and it really was "zero effort" to do so, then I guess I just overcomplicated the entire attempt for no real reason.

I have, at least. Mostly on DRK even, where it's actually significantly harder than on WAR, because I don't have the skills to immediately heal myself to full outside of LD. I have a video of me soloing Quetzacoatl in Shadowbringers by myself. Questions appear, like "I need to generate X amount of mana to TBN this raidwide and two subsequent auto attacks for a break", "What's our composition right now? Who can sustain themselves, or help me live longer? "Melee DPS and ranged DPS are with me right now, Melee can heal themselves with bloodbath, ranged doesn't have as much, they need more priority on the incidental raidwide or stack damage to split the burden between us three" "Do I have enough cooldowns to solo this stack marker?" "Based on boss HP, how much longer would I last if I spammed TBN regardless of the loss of Edges? Can we kill this thing before I'm dry" "Is it better to LD now, or should I get one more Souleater?" Is it better to Tank LB for the mitigation on this raidwide that 100% kill one of my still alive DPS, or should I tell the melee to burn it and hope I can finish it myself? "If I use mitigation, and TBN, based on previous experience, would I actually lose the Edge if I do so? Is it better to just stack Oblation instead?" "Can I bleed this Rampart into multiple forms of damage?" "If my DPS are out of position, is it possible to save them with TBN? Can I negate the vuln entirely if I TBN+Oblation? We can't afford for them to get vuln and take more damage as we try to burn this down"

Repeat these questions for PLD and GNB while you are at it. There's been many a Superbolide > Heart of Corundum + Aurora panic recovery. There's been many a Cover + Hallowed Ground + Mit to salvage a stack marker when there's no other choice. Kitchen sinked the stack away from the party if I have to, as the stacks in normal content are weaker than the average DSR tankbuster. I will always drag the party over the finish line if they want it. Because I know I can do it.

And when it comes to normal raids or trials, well. Two tanks who are even halfway competent control the instance. If they choose not to wipe, you are not wiping. Although, it is fight dependent, as rare as it is to have hard hitting NM. The only exception to this recently is P10N because the party stacks, busters, and tower vulns WILL wear the tanks out pretty quickly, and that's much healthier than watching the tanks drag everyone through the boss when it would've been quicker to wipe. Asura is particularly bad about this.

I have asked these questions. I have made these observations. I have made these considerations. And I have performed, and killed the boss, many times. On every tank for doing what you are talking about, because that's my main role. And even then, even then, I would still give it up, because I know people get bored or angry if I do, and I honestly shouldn't be able to solo something designed for 4 people with THIS much ease. It's not a power fantasy for me anymore to kill a boss that I know is so undertuned that it can't kill me unless I effectively gave it the gun to do so through self inflicted vulns. Even something like DRK with Tycoon, something that I CANNOT solo from 100% to 0 on my own, only about 30% or so, because it would take like ten minutes and I run out of CDs, if I had some DPS flailing about, we absolutely could've downed it with no healers. It's cool to watch for some people, and I love doing it when it happens because I have to think for moment in normal content. A "time to lock in", if you will. But it's a flaw in the design. It shouldn't be this...expected. It's no longer an outlier. It's a feeling of "Everyone's dead? Whatever, didn't need them." That's the last thing I want to feel in an MMO. There is a wide abyss between "Nothing matters, take all the vulns you want who cares" and "If you miss this feint/are out of position, we are all going to die instantly." We continue to fall on the wide sides every time.

We can't get it right in either direction.

[Roshidon1]

R

than watching the tanks drag everyone through the boss when it would've been quicker to wipe. Asura is particularly bad about this.

I have asked these questions. I have made these observations. I have made these considerations. And I have performed, and killed the boss, many times. On every tank for doing what you are talking about, because that's my main role. And even then, even then, I would still give it up, because I know people get bored or angry if I do, and I honestly shouldn't be able to solo something designed for 4 people with THIS much ease. It's not a power fantasy for me anymore to kill a boss that I know is so undertuned that it can't kill me unless I effectively gave it the gun to do so through self inflicted vulns. Even something like DRK with Tycoon, something that I CANNOT solo from 100% to 0 on my own, only about 30% or so, because it would take like ten minutes and I run out of CDs, if I had some DPS flailing about, we absolutely could've downed it with no healers. It's cool to watch for some people, and I love doing it when it happens because I have to think for moment in normal content. A "time to lock in", if you will. But it's a flaw in the design. It shouldn't be this...expected. It's no longer an outlier. It's a feeling of "Everyone's dead? Whatever, didn't need them." That's the last thing I want to feel in an MMO. There is a wide abyss between "Nothing matters, take all the vulns you want who cares" and "If you miss this feint/are out of position, we are all going to die instantly." We continue to fall on the wide sides every time.

We can't get it right in either direction.

This is actually a good point. We have sort of the same thing in WoW. For example, DK (deathknight) is known as one of the tanks that can heal themselves really well. Alot of times, even on the harder content, you'll have a situation where the healer and/or the dps will die and the DK will just solo the boss. Now this is all well and good for the DK, but I can say as a healer and/or dps it is not fun sitting there for 5 minutes watching a DK fight by himself while you just...lay there on the floor lol.

[Lyth]

So at the start of Endwalker, my friend (a white mage) and I queued into the Dead Ends. He disconnected on the final boss, right at the start. This was in the time period where if you got disconnected, you'd be waiting an hour+ to get back into the game. So he's gone, the two dps go down. The boss is at roughly 60%. I tell them I think I can do it, and ask for permission. They tell me to go for it, so I did, and I finished the instance.

This type of clear been possible for a few expansions, but it becomes progressively easier with each successive expansion.

If you want a more concrete example, take a look at this run from the Dawntrail Media Tour. It might be subjectively stressful for the tank doing that particular solo, because of how many mechanics they get hit by. But it's also clearly not all that difficult. They easily heal themselves up through two vuln stacks. Difficult would mean clean runs only, and having limited healing tools that you had to plan out judiciously. What we have currently flies in the face of skill expression. People used to get genuinely impressed at WAR solos. Now nobody bats an eyelid because of how common it is.

Speaking generally, nobody wants to sit around and spectate a tank clumsily and slowly solo a boss while getting hit by every mechanic and with multiple vuln stacks up. That clear took 10 minutes from 50% to zero, and there's nothing you could have done as a party to terminate that pull and reset. That's a genuinely terrible situation to be in, and I'm sure you'll have more than a few newer players lose interest if that turns out to be the standard dungeon experience for them.

I don't think there's a problem with sustain actions existing on tank (assuming that they're designed appropriately), but the balance around them has become progressively more skewed over time, secondary to the defensive powercreep that we've seen across all supports. It just needs to be reined in a bit.

[OdinelStarrei]

This type of clear been possible for a few expansions, but it becomes progressively easier with each successive expansion.

If you want a more concrete example, take a look at this run from the Dawntrail Media Tour. It might be subjectively stressful for the tank doing that particular solo, because of how many mechanics they get hit by. But it's also clearly not all that difficult. They easily heal themselves up through two vuln stacks. Difficult would mean clean runs only, and having limited healing tools that you had to plan out judiciously. What we have currently flies in the face of skill expression. People used to get genuinely impressed at WAR solos. Now nobody bats an eyelid because of how common it is.

Speaking generally, nobody wants to sit around and spectate a tank clumsily and slowly solo a boss while getting hit by every mechanic and with multiple vuln stacks up. That clear took 10 minutes from 50% to zero, and there's nothing you could have done as a party to terminate that pull and reset. That's a genuinely terrible situation to be in, and I'm sure you'll have more than a few newer players lose interest if that turns out to be the standard dungeon experience for them.

I don't think there's a problem with sustain actions existing on tank (assuming that they're designed appropriately), but the balance around them has become progressively more skewed over time, secondary to the defensive powercreep that we've seen across all supports. It just needs to be reined in a bit.

Following up here, this is an issue that indeed, has gotten worse with time, and will continue to be an issue as tanks get more and more defensive cooldowns.

I keep mentioning that solo I did, and I think it'll make a good comparision to the video you've posted, showing that this has been happening for a long, long time now. Even when you have someone who is practiced, you can only do the same mechanic set so many times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wn2KlifwWY

Even at the time, in Shadowbringers, where DRK was defensively at it's absolute weakest, I never felt like I was in any danger whatsoever. And now that solos are becoming more and more commonplace, I feel a lot of that luster has been lost. Note that I am not even that good at this game, average if I'm being generous. The content just isn't threatening.

Quality is bit low, sorry about that, it's before I got a good computer, but while before I would have looked at this video with a point of pride, showing that I didn't need WAR level sustain to solo, (this was pre-LD change),even though I made mistakes in it, but now I look at it with a bit of contempt for myself. If I had some randoms that all died, would they really enjoy watching me do this encounter all on my own? I'm bored just watching it back again. I know Quetz is pretty easy, but...still.