#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Moonjava]

Then they shouldn't have done the ShB reworks to begin with, all it did was design them into a hole that needs another redesign.

Again, healers "need" a redesign according to you. A lot of people don't feel that way. Why is your opinion on the matter the "correct" one?

The inclusion of SGE also didn't fix the healer queue times, it was still mostly instant. So that argument doesn't work for me either.

There are countless reasons why healer queue times could have changed over time. I could come up with plenty of other possibilities, but our own pet theories can never be proven and are not evidence for anything.

Then they can just ignore those buttons, it hardly matters in casual content since the only actual requirements for healers should be to meet the healing requirements. Damage is just a bonus in casual content. In Ex/Savage they don't have a choice, and they should be dealing damage regardless of how they feel about it.

People generally don't find someone ignoring the bulk of their DPS rotation to be acceptable play in any level of content- they would inevitably get called out for it in some roulette or another. Introducing a more complex DPS rotation inherently raises the skill floor, even if the old rotation were technically still possible, and that would lead to some number of players, however small, quitting the game and would narrow the potential playerbase. I've still yet to see a compelling argument as to why SE should do that besides "I personally liked the old way better."

[Moonjava]

Let me make this abundantly clear for you.

You, me, everyone here, we are ALL a minority. The majority DOES NOT CARE. They played healers in HW, they played healers in SB, they played healers in ShB, they played healers in EW, they will play healers in DT. They won't care whether the healer rotation is 1 2 3 4, 1 1 1 1 or 1 2 6 25 87 635 1, they will play healer as long as they enjoy it because they don't have a strong opinion one way or another.

These people do not have a strong lean one way or another. We (you and us), the people who feel strongly enough to give feedback are obviously a small number.

Neither of us have the backing of this nebulous majority, you can't even say any changes would anger anyone either because you DON'T KNOW how people would react.

Again, say it with me, the community is not a hivemind.

Alright friend, I don't know what I did to deserve this level of condescension, but your argument only strengthens my point. The vast majority of people don't care- as such, why should SE invest resources into reworking these jobs when it will only satisfy a relatively small number of players and will probably upset an equal amount of others? (Again, law of large numbers, some number of people will always be upset by any given change.) Game development on a schedule as regimented as FFXIV's is zero-sum. In order to redesign every healer job, they will have to make room in the development schedule to do so, and that comes at a cost of other content. If most people don't care whether healers change or not, what justifies cutting or delaying that other content?

[Aravell]

Alright friend, I don't know what I did to deserve this level of condescension, but your argument only strengthens my point. The vast majority of people don't care- as such, why should SE invest resources into reworking these jobs when it will only satisfy a relatively small number of players and will probably upset an equal amount of others? (Again, law of large numbers, some number of people will always be upset by any given change.) Game development on a schedule as regimented as FFXIV's is zero-sum. In order to redesign every healer job, they will have to make room in the development schedule to do so, and that comes at a cost of other content. If most people don't care whether healers change or not, what justifies cutting or delaying that other content?

And where exactly do you have the data that the people who want change is very small and an equal amount of people would be upset at the changes?

Your argument hinges entirely on data that you do not have.

[Moonjava]

And where exactly do you have the data that the people who want change is very small and an equal amount of people would be upset at the changes?

Your argument hinges entirely on data that you do not have.

It doesn't- I was clear up front that there is no way of knowing the ratio of people who would like a rework versus people who would be upset by it. My point is, SE doesn't have that data either- they can try to collect it, but it's going to be unreliable, because people who are currently content but would be upset by a rework are going to be less likely to give feedback than people who are currently upset and would like a rework. Given they cannot truly know if reworking healers would excite more people than it would upset, and the fact that such a rework would eat up a lot of development resources and cause other content to fall by the wayside, why should they do it?

[TheDustyOne]

Again, healers "need" a redesign according to you. A lot of people don't feel that way. Why is your opinion on the matter the "correct" one?

Given the sheer amount of response this thread has had in a very short amount of time, that should be an indication that a lot of people are very, very unhappy with the status quo.

There are countless reasons why healer queue times could have changed over time. I could come up with plenty of other possibilities, but our own pet theories can never be proven and are not evidence for anything.

Hence why I referred to it as an anecdote, it's a thing I noticed but not full evidence. It's something to add to suggest that maybe people don't like how the healers play compared to before.

People generally don't find someone ignoring the bulk of their DPS rotation to be acceptable play in any level of content- they would inevitably get called out for it in some roulette or another. Introducing a more complex DPS rotation inherently raises the skill floor, even if the old rotation were technically still possible, and that would lead to some number of players, however small, quitting the game and would narrow the potential playerbase.

It only raises the ceiling on healers, not the floor. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the healer sub forum for years now. Only in Ex/Savage would it raise the floor, which is where people should be comfortable with their jobs anyway.

I've still yet to see a compelling argument as to why SE should do that besides "I personally liked the old way better."

And there's no compelling argument for the current paradigm, all you're doing is going in circles and intentionally being antagonistic over "well, I'm sure SOME like it".

[BelleStarlily]

Let me just start by saying that there's nothing wrong with the healer role and explain why your opinions are going to get ignored again.

In FFXIV the healer role is intended to play differently than say something like WOW. In this game your main priority is to do damage and use your off global cooldowns to heal and sustain the party.

Additionally, the majority of you are players that have mostly touched normal content in the game and 90% of that content is made in a way to support every single player regardless of their knowledge of the game or their skill level, so that type of content will never change.

Even if they did change normal content to make it more difficult I can guarantee you that people will not be able to consistently clear it, leading to some players leaving the game because it's "too difficult" and eventually the thing they made harder will get nerfed and back to it's current state.

Instead of crying about it and trying to boycott I suggest you give a try to some of the harder content in the game such as Criterion dungeons, extreme fights, savage raids and ultimate raids.

Obviously Criterion and Extreme are still easy but they do have a bit more going on, allowing you to use more of your kit.

Moving up to Savage and Ultimates, however is quite a big jump for most people who have not done any difficult content before. Trust me you're gonna struggle and you're most likely going to make your co-healer wanna pluck their hairs out but it's okay.

Now I also know about the thing where certain content was cleared without a healer but here's the thing about that. In order to succeed, you had jobs that have healing abilities take on a fake healer role putting in 4 times more effort into keeping everybody alive that honestly they're better off just going healer in the end of the day.

Additionally, if you looked into it, you'll see that their sacrifice of heals costed them a decent amount of damage just because you can't cast heals and cast damage at the same time. And on the other hand 90% of players will not be able to replicate that, so that alone cannot be a "red flag" towards ffxiv healer job design or whatever this is.

I'm a long-term healer in this game and I've done all sorts of content including the hardest ultimates as healer and from my experience dealing with different healers and seeing how many people actually struggle to play it consistently and forgetting to use cooldowns enough to make me have to cover their healing, I'd say the healer jobs are just fine and if there's anything they need it's just a bit more of an engaging damage rotation but looking at DT I can see us slowly getting there.

[Aravell]

It doesn't- I was clear up front that there is no way of knowing the ratio of people who would like a rework versus people who would be upset by it. My point is, SE doesn't have that data either- they can try to collect it, but it's going to be unreliable, because people who are currently content but would be upset by a rework are going to be less likely to give feedback than people who are currently upset and would like a rework. Given they cannot truly know if reworking healers would excite more people than it would upset, and the fact that such a rework would eat up a lot of development resources and cause other content to fall by the wayside, why should they do it?

And that's what this movement is aiming to prove. If enough healers truly quit in DT to impact their metrics, then it proves that enough people think that the current healer design is garbage and something needs to change. If the numbers are small enough to not matter, then SE can see that it's not worth doing anything.

It remains to be seen how things will turn out, but right now no one has the data and no one can claim the nebulous majority backing. So it's just pro-change vs anti-change.

[Supersnow845]

Savage is barely engaging either because all you do is press broil

You easily spend 70-80% of your casts on broil/biolysis because our kits are so overpowered and the damage just isn’t there

[OliviaLugria]

In FFXIV the healer role is intended to play differently than say something like WOW. In this game your main priority is to do damage and use your off global cooldowns to heal and sustain the party.

If our main priority is to deal damage you might want to talk to the design team. They don't seem to think so. Also, if our main goal is damage, then they should make dealing that damage interesting.

[Moonjava]

Given the sheer amount of response this thread has had in a very short amount of time, that should be an indication that a lot of people are very, very unhappy with the status quo.

Relative to the size of the entire playerbase, this is not very significant.

It only raises the ceiling on healers, not the floor. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the healer sub forum for years now. Only in Ex/Savage would it raise the floor, which is where people should be comfortable with their jobs anyway.

It sounds to me like you consider the skill floor in normal content to be basically non-existent, that a healer can AFK at a dungeon entrance and as long as the rest of the group clears the dungeon, that's acceptable. From a purely objective-oriented perspective, that may be true, but in the social context of the game, players expect a certain amount of participation and effort from other players. If I ran a level 90 dungeon on SMN and only clicked Outburst and Ruin III, that would be considered griefing- if healer rotations were put on par with tanks/DPS, only clicking Glare and Holy would similarly be considered griefing, and a lot of players wouldn't take kindly to that. Players who wanted to stick to the old rotation would face social backlash for doing so.

And there's no compelling argument for the current paradigm, all you're doing is going in circles and intentionally being antagonistic over "well, I'm sure SOME like it".

The argument for the current paradigm is that it costs SE nothing to leave it as-is. That is my point. Nobody has given a compelling reason why SE should invest resources into this rework beyond their own personal preference.