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  1. #1
    Player
    Shikiseki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,268
    Character
    Akio Shikimazu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    The overabundant 300p heal OGCDs is what gets me the most - it doesn't even need that much brainpower to design half decent reworks either:

    Tanks only have like 6(!) tank buffs: one is shared across, one stronger mit, one special personal buff, one self heal, one party buff - that's it! the rest are dps skills and buffs

    Now you could translate it for healers would be like: one shared standard heal (Cure), one stronger heal with splash around the target (Cure III), one special personal buff (think Aquaveil), a self buff (think Presence of Mind), one party mit/heal (Asylum)

    The rest of the buttons can basically be dps skills with the other half being job unique to their system:
    - WHM pure healing with Lilies
    - AST RNG AoE Buffs
    - SCH whacky swiss army knife skills like expedient
    - SGE kardia dps healing
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    ZephyrMenodora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,316
    Character
    Zephyr Menodora
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shikiseki View Post
    The overabundant 300p heal OGCDs is what gets me the most - it doesn't even need that much brainpower to design half decent reworks either:

    Tanks only have like 6(!) tank buffs: one is shared across, one stronger mit, one special personal buff, one self heal, one party buff - that's it! the rest are dps skills and buffs

    Now you could translate it for healers would be like: one shared standard heal (Cure), one stronger heal with splash around the target (Cure III), one special personal buff (think Aquaveil), a self buff (think Presence of Mind), one party mit/heal (Asylum)

    The rest of the buttons can basically be dps skills with the other half being job unique to their system:
    - WHM pure healing with Lilies
    - AST RNG AoE Buffs
    - SCH whacky swiss army knife skills like expedient
    - SGE kardia dps healing
    I'm not really interested in healing being dumbed down to 5 or 6 skills and then more DPS. Expanded class systems are fine, but the example above seems to suggest making healing even less challenging.

    Tanks aren't really the best comparison. MMO tanks are still martial classes and DPS was always part of their gameplay as it helps with their function of keeping emnity.
    (1)
    Last edited by ZephyrMenodora; 06-15-2024 at 03:15 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    GrimGale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,113
    Character
    Grim Gaelasch
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora View Post
    I'm not really interested in healing being dumbed down to 5 or 6 skills and then more DPS. Expanded class systems are fine, but the example above seems to suggest making healing even less challenging.
    One thing that is not really talked about regarding healer skills (Including their DPS kits) is how "basic" their effects are.

    You can get away with having few buttons if the moment to moment gameplay with them has a few layers of interactivity.

    As they are now, the interactions within kits are very one note.

    The most interesting skills tend to have a few effects and consequences. Earthly Star has a cool delayed heal mechanic increasing its potency significantly if it's allowed to stay undetonated for 10 seconds. We could have mechanically interesting DPS skills without adding anymore buttons.

    Imagine Ruin II applying a short duration DoT (like between 12 and 18 seconds), if you reapply it after a few seconds (When there are 2 seconds left for it to expire) it explodes, for a bit of extra damage.
    Imagine Dia granting procs of Sacred Sight to allow Glare IV.
    Imagine Dosis having a 50% chance to grant addersting and Toxikon having a bit more potency (Not enough to be DPS neutral with the shield application but being a gain on Dosis)
    Imagine AST having some interesting interaction with their Minor arcana that isn't just another oGCD attack or heal.

    With a little bit more of mechanical interaction you could have an extra layer of meaningful engagement with the filler rotations without adding any buttons!
    (14)
    Last edited by GrimGale; 06-15-2024 at 03:41 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    ZephyrMenodora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,316
    Character
    Zephyr Menodora
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by GrimGale View Post
    One thing that is not really talked about regarding healer skills (Including their DPS kits) is how "basic" their effects are.

    You can get away with having few buttons if the moment to moment gameplay with them has a few layers of interactivity.

    As they are now, the interactions within kits are very one note.

    The most interesting skills tend to have a few effects and consequences. Earthly Star has a cool delayed heal mechanic increasing its potency significantly if it's allowed to stay undetonated for 10 seconds. We could have mechanically interesting DPS skills without adding anymore buttons.

    Imagine Ruin II applying a short duration DoT (like 12seconds), if you reapply it after 10 seconds it explodes, for a bit of extra damage.
    Imagine Dia granting procs of Sacred Sight to allow Glare IV.
    Imagine Dosis having a 50% chance to grant addersting and Toxikon having a bit more potency (Not enough to be DPS neutral with the shield application but being a gain on Dosis)
    Imagine AST having some interesting interaction with their Minor arcana that isn't just another oGCD attack or heal.

    With a little bit more of mechanical interaction you could have a very thin extra layer of meaningful engagement with the filler rotations without adding any buttons!
    I'm definitely more on board with these ideas, because DPSing should always at least be a small part of a Healer's time. Making that time more exciting/complex is great too.

    Your ideas adds actual interactivity with these skills, and not just one-note 300 damage or a 30 second dot.
    (8)