#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Jeeqbit]

Because people "Green DPS" so they get fast queues rather than to actually heal.

I've green DPS'd since ARR. I really mean this - when I picked up Conjurer for the first time in ARR itself and got Cleric Stance, I immediately used it and did DPS when I wasn't healing.

I didn't raid then, I didn't talk to anyone about optimization then, I wasn't even beyond level 32 on Gladiator (since I needed a Conjurer to become Paladin). In fact, I didn't really know what a tank was then; I just liked the shield.

And despite all of that I was perfectly fine doing DPS as a healer whilst actually healing a lot when needed.

The crazy thing is that the healing requirement in lower level dungeons is higher than max level dungeons. How does that even make sense?

Using self-heal as a tank is basically telling the healer they aren't doing their job.

No, it's the tank saying "I want to do your job for you because I can". Because that's what tanks are thinking when they do it. Which raises the question of if they should be able to do a healer's job for them and to what extent.

Big, wall-to-wall pulls are annoying when the tank does not telegraph they are going to do that.

I agree that it's annoying when a tank is not clear and anxiously pulls one pack then suddenly changes their mind to pull two. As for me though, I sprint immediately and I think it is quite clear what I am doing and that I am not hesitating.

Especially for people who just picked up conjurer, and get blindsided in sastasha with a tank who pulls the entire floor and then runs off.

Well Sastasha is one thing. If SE wanted to add walls to it that's fine. It's the first dungeon. But that is no reason for level 90 and level 100 dungeons to be designed as if they are the first dungeon (or to even involve less healing than that).

I could pull a crazy amount in Sastasha but I try to only pull a smaller amount of packs so I don't overwhelm them in their first dungeon, especially if it's a sprout.

[Rolder50]

No, it's the tank saying "I want to do your job for you because I can". Because that's what tanks are thinking when they do it. Which raises the question of if they should be able to do a healer's job for them and to what extent.

I did a little WAR in EW here and there were more then a few times in Expert roulette where the healer would die on a boss and it literally made zero difference.

[EusisLandale]

No, it's the tank saying "I want to do your job for you because I can". Because that's what tanks are thinking when they do it. Which raises the question of if they should be able to do a healer's job for them and to what extent.

Sometimes the tanks don't even say it silently with their skills, as I noted toward the start of this.

A tank not doing their job gets noticed, yes.
Meanwhile I've had more than a few dungeons runs where, upon entry, I get told to not heal. First couple times it happened, I just sat there and watched, hoping for the tank to hit the ground. They never did. All I did was follow behind the group doing nothing, and nobody noticed anything out of the ordinary.

Honestly, those were some of the most humiliating dungeons I've ever been in. To basically be told I'm not needed and have it be proven quite literally true.

[JanineBeckinsale]

No, it's the tank saying "I want to do your job for you because I can". Because that's what tanks are thinking when they do it.

I can't speak for all Tank players (and I hope you'll forgive my choice of words) but that's an utterly paranoiac and insane way of thinking. Unless you weren't serious of course.

Tanks have tools to reduce the amount of damage they take and thus their chances of dying (and wiping the group), they simply use them, trying to be as efficient for the group as they can be (as all party members should).

Now, I can agree that some of these tools are borderline overpowered, if not completely, but I very much doubt the whole "Tanks using cooldowns is a way to assert dominance on puny weak useless healers."

[Jeeqbit]

I can't speak for all Tank players (and I hope you'll forgive my choice of words) but that's an utterly paranoiac and insane way of thinking.

I disagree. You, as the tank, have a heal. Why not use it? It's logical to use your kit. But doing so removes the need for the healer. And also makes it so you don't need to rely on healers that might not be as good. Finally, it reaches a point where, when they do heal, it's annoying.

For example, if you are a Warrior and a Scholar puts Excogitation on you, it's like why waste DPS on me? And it doesn't activate at all. Or a WHM that uses Benediction when I just use Equilibrium or Bloodwhetting. It gets to the point of feeling annoying because you're doing that job yourself.

But objectively speaking, a tank shouldn't be feeling like they can heal that much over the healer to begin with.

[JanineBeckinsale]

I disagree. You, as the tank, have a heal. Why not use it? It's logical to use your kit. But doing so removes the need for the healer. And also makes it so you don't need to rely on healers that might not be as good. Finally, it reaches a point where, when they do heal, it's annoying.

Then that's a completely different thing. The blame, if you want to put one on someone, is to be put on the balance/design team, not on the players who are just using their tools.

For example, if you are a Warrior and a Scholar puts Excogitation on you, it's like why waste DPS on me? And it doesn't activate at all. Or a WHM that uses Benediction when I just use Equilibrium or Bloodwhetting. It gets to the point of feeling annoying because you're doing that job yourself.

If I'm tanking and see an Excog on me, all I'm thinking is that I'm paired with a smart healer and that I can save my cooldowns for a later time as I want to take advantage of that Excog proc.

And if I'm WHM I just need to be smart about my Bene and be prepared to use it when I know my WAR doesn't have their BW available.

[Jeeqbit]

Then that's a completely different thing. The blame, if you want to put one on someone, is to be put on the balance/design team, not on the players who are just using their tools.

Well that's what I am saying and that's why I'm posting here. But it doesn't change that it's annoying in the moment. Something being annoying is not the same as blame.

If I'm tanking and see an Excog on me, all I'm thinking is that I'm paired with a smart healer and that I can save my cooldowns for a later time as I want to take advantage of that Excog proc.

You'll never end up using them then, because there literally isn't enough damage in modern dungeons for it to be needed. It's either a tank's or a healer's cooldowns.

And if I'm WHM I just need to be smart about my Bene and be prepared to use it when I know my WAR doesn't have their BW available.

The reality is that by the time the WAR has taken enough damage to need BW again, BW is up again... if it's not, they have Thrill+Equilibrium or Arm's Length. And in DT they got a heal on Vengeance... And if that's not enough, they have a party regen on Shake It Off. Benedication ain't needed at any point. And if somehow they ran out of all these things, which they definitely wouldn't, they have Holm Gang.

My issue comes when the failure isn't tied to the encounter but the person who failed.

Like I remember a run of The Aetherochemical Research Facility where we wiped several times on PA because the healer failed the mechanic. If any one else had failed instead of the healer especially a dps we wouldn't had to restart 5 or more times.

Actually, I've had the healer die in that fight and cleared it. I only need 1 thing: a DPS to survive to help me beat the DPS check. After that, I can clear it regardless of roles.

There is something to be said for the person who failed needing to learn through repetition though. Many runs of that dungeon now have multiple wipes to the last boss, but they learn from it and get better and then clear it. If they don't, we figure out a way to help them survive if we can, or survive for as long as we can. Or we try to do advanced callouts for them.

That's the point though. It's a team effort, and a process of getting better to overcome it. That's one of the appeals of an MMORPG for many people - overcoming a challenge as a team, so I feel bad when there is not at least 1 wipe or multiple near-wipes that were a clutch save.

I'm not saying it should be that hard, it should just make you feel something like Zenos wants to feel. It's ironic we have this Zenos character expressing exactly how many of us feel about some of the story content (or their lack of item level syncs).

[Loggos]

If they don't, we figure out a way to help them survive if we can, or survive for as long as we can. Or we try to do advanced callouts for them.

That's the point though. It's a team effort, and a process of getting better to overcome it. That's one of the appeals of an MMORPG for many people - overcoming a challenge as a team, so I feel bad when there is not at least 1 wipe or multiple near-wipes that were a clutch save.

I think this is a very good point. I understand that the routine of roulettes has led to people not wanting to spend too much time on them, so a person messing up can easily be irritating if you just want your tomes and be done with it. While it's understandable I still think it's a bit sad because these moments of working together and figuring things out are one of the most enjoyable instances for me. Suddenly you are an actual team, even for just a short time, and not just four silent randos. Overcoming those (small) challenges does feel quite rewarding to me and I'm always happy when the occur.

[Jeeqbit]

I think that one of the points on the manifesto could also be that old dungeons involve more healing than higher level dungeons and this doesn't make logical sense. In part its due to how the enemies do more or higher damage auto attacks, but also the lack of tank self-heals at those levels. Even a Warrior at level 60 is not quite as overpowered as at 90 (Bloodwhetting is in a massively nerfed version called Raw Intuition, no Shake It Off, Equilibrium doesn't have a regen, Thrill doesn't buff your heals).

I think this is a very good point. I understand that the routine of roulettes has led to people not wanting to spend too much time on them, so a person messing up can easily be irritating if you just want your tomes and be done with it. While it's understandable I still think it's a bit sad because these moments of working together and figuring things out are one of the most enjoyable instances for me. Suddenly you are an actual team, even for just a short time, and not just four silent randos. Overcoming those (small) challenges does feel quite rewarding to me and I'm always happy when the occur.

It's also not too much of a problem for something quick to be challenging. In mentor roulette, I get extreme trials fairly often, and although you may expect them to keep you there hours, they usually don't actually due to poor item level sync or Echo stacks building on wipe. But there are at least a few wipes or some deaths or some learning involved that makes me feel like these sprouts got to FEEL something and they will know what this game can be outside of story content.

[Kazmarek]

I can't speak for all Tank players (and I hope you'll forgive my choice of words) but that's an utterly paranoiac and insane way of thinking. Unless you weren't serious of course.

Tanks have tools to reduce the amount of damage they take and thus their chances of dying (and wiping the group), they simply use them, trying to be as efficient for the group as they can be (as all party members should).

Now, I can agree that some of these tools are borderline overpowered, if not completely, but I very much doubt the whole "Tanks using cooldowns is a way to assert dominance on puny weak useless healers."

Yeah I don't really view it as "lol I'm gonna assert dominance over everyone here," I view it more as "if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself." Warrior, in its current form, is perfect for this. I'm sure confirmation bias plays a big role in my line of thinking, but it seems like every time I try to not play tank in something, I should've gone tank. Can't dps because then the tank is gonna do single pulls and the healer's just gonna stand there doing literally nothing. Can't heal because then the tank is gonna do single pulls and the reaper's not gonna apply their death's design debuff and the bard's not gonna use songs or dots. So, tank it is.

I can play warrior, I can pull to the wall, I don't have to care about my healer or dps because I can solo the entire dungeon. Sure, it's gonna take awhile, but at least I know I can do it. So... sticking with what others have said, my bad experiences in the past have shaped my way of thinking here, "if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself." I'm not really with the healer strike, simply because I don't play healer (outside of warrior lol) but I'm certainly not against it, either. It's good to see people actually trying to do something and actually trying to enact change. I highly doubt it'll actually go anywhere, but I respect it nonetheless.