7.0 DPS Wishlist

[Big-Isaac]

The point is that a job can have bloated, inefficient design regardless of its raw button count, and DRG is a good example. I don't see how tightening up a job's design and making it more efficient is the same as "ruining" it.
If you disagree, then please point out how the changes I proposed in that original post would make current DRG worse.

[CidHeiral]

The point is that a job can have bloated, inefficient design regardless of its raw button count, and DRG is a good example. I don't see how tightening up a job's design and making it more efficient is the same as "ruining" it.
If you disagree, then please point out how the changes I proposed in that original post would make current DRG worse.

Your suggestions are just "remove a bunch of abilities and add a proc because I like procs." Your mirage dive suggestion was already implemented a few patches ago and then removed because it was awful. The fact that you don't understand why these are bad ideas for people who love DRG now is exactly my point.

I despise Dancer, I think it's the worst job in the game. I'd rather have my skin peeled off by a rusty cheese grater than play that job. But you know what you don't see me doing? Rolling up to Dancer mains saying "I think they should remove all the procs and make it a static looping rotation like DRG, because that's what I find fun." Regardless of my personal feelings on the job's design there are tons of people who love it just the way it is, so I just write it off as not for me and carry on living my life.

[rawker]

Your suggestions are just "remove a bunch of abilities and add a proc because I like procs." Your mirage dive suggestion was already implemented a few patches ago and then removed because it was awful. The fact that you don't understand why these are bad ideas for people who love DRG now is exactly my point.

I despise Dancer, I think it's the worst job in the game. I'd rather have my skin peeled off by a rusty cheese grater than play that job. But you know what you don't see me doing? Rolling up to Dancer mains saying "I think they should remove all the procs and make it a static looping rotation like DRG, because that's what I find fun." Regardless of my personal feelings on the job's design there are tons of people who love it just the way it is, so I just write it off as not for me and carry on living my life.

It's sad because that's exactly what happened to SMN. I remembered when the noise regarding summoning is instant and will modify your base spells was so rampant, everyone was cheering like well.. sorry for using this analogy is when Pontius Pilate was asking the people should they free Barabbas or Jesus.

[Big-Isaac]

Your suggestions are just "remove a bunch of abilities and add a proc because I like procs." Your mirage dive suggestion was already implemented a few patches ago and then removed because it was awful. The fact that you don't understand why these are bad ideas for people who love DRG now is exactly my point.

> "please explain how my suggestions are bad"
> "your suggestions are awful"

Gee, thanks, very helpful.
Again, I don't see how mapping the EXACT SAME abilities on fewer buttons would suddenly make the job worse. The only semblance of a suggestions I got earlier was "because people mash too hard"

I despise Dancer, I think it's the worst job in the game. I'd rather have my skin peeled off by a rusty cheese grater than play that job.

Easy on the hyperbole, there.

But you know what you don't see me doing? Rolling up to Dancer mains saying "I think they should remove all the procs and make it a static looping rotation like DRG, because that's what I find fun." Regardless of my personal feelings on the job's design there are tons of people who love it just the way it is, so I just write it off as not for me and carry on living my life.

I'm not bloody asking for DRG to become as RNG-reliant as DNC, or even reliant on RNG at all, so stop putting words in my mouth. You're taking a very specific part of my post completely out of context.
To reiterate: Life Surge is a skill that makes no bloody sense in DRG's current design, because the job has no specific interaction with crit. My point was that they should either introduce crit interactions (a proc on crit being a possible example) or change the skill into something more worthy of taking up a keybind.

I genuinely do not understand how people can be so married to abilities that only slightly increase a meaningless number but do nothing for your job's actual gameplay. Same with the boring 10% damage buffs several jobs have.

[CidHeiral]

[ZiraZ]

> "please explain how my suggestions are bad"
> "your suggestions are awful"

Gee, thanks, very helpful.
Again, I don't see how mapping the EXACT SAME abilities on fewer buttons would suddenly make the job worse. The only semblance of a suggestions I got earlier was "because people mash too hard"



Easy on the hyperbole, there.



I'm not bloody asking for DRG to become as RNG-reliant as DNC, or even reliant on RNG at all, so stop putting words in my mouth. You're taking a very specific part of my post completely out of context.
To reiterate: Life Surge is a skill that makes no bloody sense in DRG's current design, because the job has no specific interaction with crit. My point was that they should either introduce crit interactions (a proc on crit being a possible example) or change the skill into something more worthy of taking up a keybind.

I genuinely do not understand how people can be so married to abilities that only slightly increase a meaningless number but do nothing for your job's actual gameplay. Same with the boring 10% damage buffs several jobs have.

Have you ever played DRG in any kind of high-end duty?
You clearly have ZERO clue what you are talking about, life surge has slight intricacies due to it's 40sec cooldown and the way the GCD loops, I mean you don't even have a clue why mirage dive is separate from HJ and as people already pointed out your idea is so bad even the devs backtracked on it in record time, so I doubt you've ever done a proper 6min+ life surge loop. Not to mention the consequences and interactions of skillspeed on life surge and kill/phase speed in crit/ultimates, incredibly reductive calling it an ability that increases a meaningless number and does nothing for the jobs actual gameplay.
Anyways DRG has no bloat and every oGCD has its place in the rotation.

[Big-Isaac]

Have you ever played DRG in any kind of high-end duty?
You clearly have ZERO clue what you are talking about, life surge has slight intricacies due to it's 40sec cooldown and the way the GCD loops, I mean you don't even have a clue why mirage dive is separate from HJ and as people already pointed out your idea is so bad even the devs backtracked on it in record time, so I doubt you've ever done a proper 6min+ life surge loop. Not to mention the consequences and interactions of skillspeed on life surge and kill/phase speed in crit/ultimates, incredibly reductive calling it an ability that increases a meaningless number and does nothing for the jobs actual gameplay.
Anyways DRG has no bloat and every oGCD has its place in the rotation.

When I speak of the impact a skill has on your rotation, I'm not referring to how much you have to pre-plan the uses of that skill throughout a fight, and to how oh-so difficult it is to optimize.
What I'm referring to is the effect that the act of pressing the button has on your rotation.
In Life Surge's case, all it does is increase the damage number of the next skill you press. You could delete that button from your bars, play out your rotation exactly as you would normally and all that would change by the end of the fight is your total damage number.

For a more concrete comparison, take BRD's DoTs
Pre-EW, they had a tangible impact on your rotation because their ticks would proc effects for your songs. Then in EW, those interactions were removed, making it so the DoTs now have little to no impact on your rotation outside of applying and refreshing them.
Life Surge is in the same boat as those DoTs post-EW - you need to pay attention to them, obviously, but they are nonetheless boring and uninspired.

Imagine, for a moment, a world where in addition to its current effect, Life Surge did something else that has a more tangible impact on your rotation. How would that be a bad thing?

[ZiraZ]

When I speak of the impact a skill has on your rotation, I'm not referring to how much you have to pre-plan the uses of that skill throughout a fight, and to how oh-so difficult it is to optimize.
What I'm referring to is the effect that the act of pressing the button has on your rotation.
In Life Surge's case, all it does is increase the damage number of the next skill you press. You could delete that button from your bars, play out your rotation exactly as you would normally and all that would change by the end of the fight is your total damage number.

For a more concrete comparison, take BRD's DoTs
Pre-EW, they had a tangible impact on your rotation because their ticks would proc effects for your songs. Then in EW, those interactions were removed, making it so the DoTs now have little to no impact on your rotation outside of applying and refreshing them.
Life Surge is in the same boat as those DoTs post-EW - you need to pay attention to them, obviously, but they are nonetheless boring and uninspired.

Imagine, for a moment, a world where in addition to its current effect, Life Surge did something else that has a more tangible impact on your rotation. How would that be a bad thing?

Your initial post was about removing things because you couldn't fit them on your binds and called most of the oGCDs boring bloat that needed to be merged or pruned, and even suggested they did the blunder of the century mirange/HJ merge again.
You now seem to be changing the goalpost.
Yeah I wouldn't mind if life surge did more things, I'm always down for more things. What I don't want is to be given one new thing just to remove two/three/four other things, DRG's identity has always been been an extremely oGCD heavy and busy job with weave economy, yeah some things are bound to not be extremely interesting on the surface but the the collective amount of abilities that makes having to cram them all (properly) into a burst window that makes the whole job fun.
As for calling Life surge boring, do people really dislike seeing big numbers? I can practically hear the Full Thrust/Heavens' Thrust sound in my head followed by a giant number just by seeing the life surge icon, it feels great; want to give me more without removing anything? great give me more! We'll find a way to fit 20 more oGCDs in 15 seconds.

[Big-Isaac]

Your initial post was about removing things because you couldn't fit them on your binds and called most of the oGCDs boring bloat that needed to be merged or pruned, and even suggested they did the blunder of the century mirange/HJ merge again.

I know what I said and I stand by that.
Also can someone please explain why putting High Jump and Mirage Dive on the same button was such a terrible idea? So far all I got are assertions that it was, and statement that it was changed because people mashed too much.

You now seem to be changing the goalpost.

How so?

Yeah I wouldn't mind if life surge did more things, I'm always down for more things.

Fantastic. So we're in agreement.

What I don't want is to be given one new thing just to remove two/three/four other things, DRG's identity has always been been an extremely oGCD heavy and busy job with weave economy, yeah some things are bound to not be extremely interesting on the surface but the the collective amount of abilities that makes having to cram them all (properly) into a burst window that makes the whole job fun.

What I'd like to see is for them to reduce the number of buttons on your bar, not the amount of buttons you press in your rotation. You can have all the oGCD spam you want. I just don't think that having 5 different oGCD jumps take up 5 separate keybinds is efficient design.