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  1. #111
    Player
    Reldhir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    98
    Character
    Reldhir Ondoreil
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Ah... I guess "unnecessary" was the wrong word. More like least necessary? Maybe? Point I'm making is that in the glut of OGCDs that dragoon has, I would nominate lance charge and life surge to take the axe first. Why? Because they don't affect party play in raids and that is what DRG is designed around these days. Again, these are just my thoughts, im not trying to invalidate other peoples opinions xD

    As to the chap that said DRG has no bloat. Currently the DRG 2min window is jam packed to the brim. I think we can all agree there is no room to fit anymore OGCDs without them falling outside the buff windows. At present we already have to play a prio game about which skills must fall under our max buffs and which can sit at the tail end. This is at lvl 90 DRG. We are talking about a wishlist for lvl 100 DRG no? I'd assume more skills being added. If we don't shave away some current skills how would we fit new potentially cooler skills in our rotation?

    That's to say nothing about how strict it is to land everything in a very precise order with little to no room for drift. Now throw in weird phase timings and suddenly youve missed a jump, or a mirage dive. Maybe you missed your window for stardiver and it comes up right before heavens thrust. Oh whats that? You gotta hit life surge first. Welp guess stardiver has gotta clip the gcd or wait till the next window.

    I get that people find this style of dragoon rewarding and want to keep it the same. Thats cool, im a super DRG fan too. I love how DRG plays despite the drift prone all or nothing nature of it. But that's just it, I like it despite it all. And my wishlist would be for that aspect of it to be aleviated OR at the very least some of the old stuff to get axed for newer potentially more exciting stuff.

    (Also, this is just my wishlist for 7.0 :P you can have your own wishlist too! >)
    (1)
    Last edited by Reldhir; 05-03-2024 at 06:23 AM. Reason: PS*

  2. #112
    Player
    Reldhir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    98
    Character
    Reldhir Ondoreil
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Big-Isaac View Post
    Having Mirage Dive replace Jump/High Jump upon use seems like the obvious first fix.
    Haha, not particularly wishlist relevant BUT they actually tried this already! Mirage dive would replace High jump after it was used and lotsa people thought it was great but then there was the unintended issue where sometimes you mash the high jump button off cd and people would end up accidentally firing off both high jump AND mirage dive. The issue was sometimes you're already sitting on 2 eyes and you want to sit on mirage dive and fire off gierskogul to enter life of the dragon before finally hitting that mirage dive and pocketing the eye. Instead because some people were too spammy that eye would get lost to the wind and given how dependant DRGs kit is on life of the dragon phases you'd just tank your rotation if you made this mistake.

    SO the fix was. implement a 1 second delay between triggering high jump and mirage dive being active. BUT then this also had ANOTHER unintended issue where certain fights, namely Dragonsongs Reprise had a phase where you had exactly enough time to Jump at the start of the phase and then jump again at the end with miliseconds of time to land mirage dive and gain an eye. BUT because of the 1 second delay of high jump switching over to mirage dive. This was now impossible. So SE said WELP. WE TRIED. and abolished the change all together xD Good times.
    (2)

  3. #113
    Player
    Raikai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    3,560
    Character
    Arlo Nine-tails
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Reldhir View Post
    As to the chap that said DRG has no bloat. Currently the DRG 2min window is jam packed to the brim.
    Not just Dragoon. Dancer, which is a job that I don't think there's any bloat other than buttons that could transform into other buttons and yet their 2min windows are not just full to the brim, but sometimes depending on RNG, you may even leave the burst phase with unspent resources or procs. Ninja's window is also completely full.

    For more 'toys' to be added, they would have to push something out of the 2min meta, which might be optimal, but doesn't necessarily feels good to do so. Instead, they could add more complexity to the "not 2min meta" phases, because they are bland as unseasoned boiled chicken for many jobs.
    (1)

  4. #114
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,832
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    DNC and NIN are perfect examples of jobs that have the opposing problem that lead to the same situation

    DNC needs to have restrictions on how long it can hold resources because right now you just build up for 2 minutes then dump in the burst. NIN meanwhile bends its entire rotation around CD’s that have a 2 minute CD so can only sit in the burst window

    Both have opposite problems but it leads to the god awful non burst window and the god awful “my skill expression is how well can I do 7 double weaves”

    What happened to skill expression actually being maintaining a rotation around phases, downtime and mechanics, not “a jobs difficulty is proportional to how many times you double weave”
    (1)

  5. #115
    Player
    Raikai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    3,560
    Character
    Arlo Nine-tails
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    What happened to skill expression actually being maintaining a rotation around phases, downtime and mechanics, not “a jobs difficulty is proportional to how many times you double weave”

    In my case it completely shuts me down from playing some jobs at their full capacity, like AST, because my 140ms ping won't allow me to properly double weave anything. Not living in the USA, even a good gaming VPN doesn't help much. I can still complete high end content with clipping my gcd, but sucks to know that I could never achieve the same results as somebody living under 50ms ping no matter how I tried.
    (1)

  6. #116
    Player
    Raikai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    3,560
    Character
    Arlo Nine-tails
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Ugh, I just had a realization...

    IF DT leveling range gives the 120s party buffs an upgrade that extends their duration for 5 seconds just to add more stuff to the 2min meta.
    (1)

  7. #117
    Player
    Big-Isaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    98
    Character
    J'enna Vale
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Controversial, I guess, but I don't really mind the 2-minute meta as a concept. IMO all they have to do is add more stuff (like more 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 or 60s cooldown skills) that livens up rotations in between the big burst windows.
    (1)

  8. #118
    Player
    CidHeiral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    1,618
    Character
    Cid Heiral
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Reldhir View Post
    As to the chap that said DRG has no bloat. Currently the DRG 2min window is jam packed to the brim.
    They're right, DRG has no bloat. DRG being busy is why it's fun. If someone doesn't like busy jobs they have plenty of less busy jobs to choose from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big-Isaac View Post
    DRG is the only job in the entire game I can't comfortably fit into my keybinds.
    DRG has the same number of buttons as DNC, which you have listed as your main job. They are both on the lower end of job abilities at 29, including role actions.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._in_endwalker/
    (1)

  9. #119
    Player
    mallleable's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Posts
    1,308
    Character
    Malia Tri'el
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    To me, DRG's bloat doesn't come from the number of buttons, but how redundant some of them are. Like it has 4 buttons (Life Surge, Lance Charge, Dragon Sight, and Battle Litany -- 5 if you want to include getting the Power Surge buff off Disembowel/Sonic Thrust) that are just damage buff buttons. Surely some of them could be consolidated to make room for more jump, other attacks or something.
    (1)

  10. #120
    Player
    Reldhir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    98
    Character
    Reldhir Ondoreil
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CidHeiral View Post
    They're right, DRG has no bloat. DRG being busy is why it's fun. If someone doesn't like busy jobs they have plenty of less busy jobs to choose from.]
    Agree to disagree about the bloat? lol Also the implication that I'm saying DRG is unfun is silly. This post is about a wishlist. I enjoy DRG as it is, I like to think I'm even half decent at it. Would I like changes to it? Yeah! hence the wishlist xD but it's just that. A wishlist. There's no need to grumpos tell people to gtfo if they don't like the job. That's totally missing the point of this tread rofl.

    Quote Originally Posted by mallleable View Post
    To me, DRG's bloat doesn't come from the number of buttons, but how redundant some of them are. Like it has 4 buttons (Life Surge, Lance Charge, Dragon Sight, and Battle Litany -- 5 if you want to include getting the Power Surge buff off Disembowel/Sonic Thrust) that are just damage buff buttons. Surely some of them could be consolidated to make room for more jump, other attacks or something.
    (^ This) Redundant like Lance Charge xD (It's just Dragon Sight without the extra goodies xD) So we should pick a couple and lose the rest xD (I personally would nominate losing Lance Charge and Life Surge) Adding more Jumps or interesting skills in lieu of removing those boring ones would be fantastic.
    (0)
    Last edited by Reldhir; 05-03-2024 at 06:17 PM. Reason: clarity

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