2-minute meta

[Supersnow845]

The reality is that there’s too many jobs in the game. But new jobs are always going to be added because new jobs sell expansions.

With each new job, more work is created for the job design team/s. To offset this new workload, the company can either a) hire more people b) consolidate job design into a simpler system.

With the direction we have seen job design going for years now, I think it’s pretty clear what the company is choosing to do.

So, truthfully the real problem isn’t that there’s too many jobs, it’s that this game is made by a massive corporation. I’m sure that many, many developers would love to put passion into the job design again, but their hands will always be tied by the direction they get from management.

The problem with this is that it is massively unequally balanced in passion for design

If we go by the old interview that said there was only 5 designers it feels like BLM gets 2 of them to itself, the melees get one to themselves, the tanks get one, the rest of the ranged DPS and casters share the 5th even though he is a melee main and the healers get the unpaid intern who spends the day smoking weed out by the dumpster

I feel like they could make it work a lot better even with 5 if the designers actually designed jobs they liked but nobody seems to like any non melee class except BLM

[GoatOfWar]

The reality is that there’s too many jobs in the game. But new jobs are always going to be added because new jobs sell expansions.

With each new job, more work is created for the job design team/s. To offset this new workload, the company can either a) hire more people b) consolidate job design into a simpler system.

With the direction we have seen job design going for years now, I think it’s pretty clear what the company is choosing to do.

So, truthfully the real problem isn’t that there’s too many jobs, it’s that this game is made by a massive corporation. I’m sure that many, many developers would love to put passion into the job design again, but their hands will always be tied by the direction they get from management.

And yet, there is still blatant favouritism within their overhomogenisation. *Points at WAR, Sam and BLM*

[ForsakenRoe]

And yet, there is still blatant favouritism within their overhomogenisation. *Points at WAR, Sam and BLM*

If there was any favouritism for SAM on the dev team, I can't see it. I can't see how an actual SAM player would think 'yeh you know what we should do? Remove all of the kenki management aspects of the class like Seigan or Kaiten, so that the gauge is only used on the crappy filler 'use this to prevent overcap' button'. I guess the gapclosers are 10, but they're the same potency/kenki ratio as Shinten, so which one you use isn't actually that much of a 'choice', moreso a case of 'I don't have enough gauge to Shinten, but raidbuffs are about to expire, I'll just gapclose instead'. But seriously, Senei costs 25, Ikishoten gives 50, and both are 2min CDs, it is almost impossible to screw yourself into a situation of 'oops I don't have enough kenki for Senei' unless you Iki and immediately press Shinten twice for some reason. At this point, I'd rather they changed Senei from 'costs 25' to 'gives 25' and delete Ikishoten. Same Kenki generation overall (as after Senei you're left with +25), but it removes a button we don't really need, and that means space for a button that actually has an impact on our gameplay beyond 'hit it once per 2min lol'. Well, that's assuming they'd actually add such a button. chances are they'd delete Iki, and replace it with nothing, or worse, Shoha III

True on WAR though, take me back to 4.1 SB where it felt rewarding to set up and execute the burst window, should have left the 'press 60s CD, receive X stacks of 'free big hit button' to PLD with Req/Holy Spirit

[ShadowNyx3]

The problem with this is that it is massively unequally balanced in passion for design

If we go by the old interview that said there was only 5 designers it feels like BLM gets 2 of them to itself, the melees get one to themselves, the tanks get one, the rest of the ranged DPS and casters share the 5th even though he is a melee main and the healers get the unpaid intern who spends the day smoking weed out by the dumpster

I feel like they could make it work a lot better even with 5 if the designers actually designed jobs they liked but nobody seems to like any non melee class except BLM

If only these 5 human beings could design and balance 21 unique jobs while perfectly distributing their passion to only the jobs they like, as well as collaborating with each other on the larger combat system and dictating the limits to the encounter designers!

[SquigglesMajor]

I don't think it's meant to be "fun" it's meant to be balanced. The goal is to make sure that all classes are equally competitive, and they all bring the same tools to a fight. In that sense it succeeds. But fun, eh not really. It's fine if one or two classes have a set two minute rotation, but all of them is bad. There's no variety. For a game that has over 20 classes it really only has about 3.

[Lyth]

...

I think that it's human nature to seek out the biggest reward for the least amount of effort. People like to be seen to complain about reductions in job complexity, but they will genuinely complain about reductions in job efficacy. SAM is the most represented DPS in raid content (even pulling ahead of SMN), fairly consistently has the best rDPS and aDPS offerings, and has one of the most straightforward gameplay loops. I don't think that that's a coincidence.

You will definitely see the complaints on SAM swing in the exact opposite direction if VPR is released with a strictly selfish design. Suddenly SAM will instantly be described as the hardest job in the universe and its players will demand buffs to offset this.

BLM is in a bit of a strange spot because while it gets royal treatment amongst casters, the player numbers don't really reflect this. I don't think it's necessarily a mechanical execution issue; after all, it has the lowest APM out of any job in the game. It probably has to more do with the fact that BLM plays very differently from the rest from a planning standpoint and isn't as transferrable of a skillset. It'll be interesting to see how PCM impacts this space, although it would likely be more disruptive if it wasn't a buff provider.

WAR is unlikely to budge until they get around to releasing a hammer tank.

[Absurdity]

True on WAR though, take me back to 4.1 SB where it felt rewarding to set up and execute the burst window, should have left the 'press 60s CD, receive X stacks of 'free big hit button' to PLD with Req/Holy Spirit

Even 4.2 WAR was still a better job than whatever this mess is now. Your selfhealing required you to sacrifice a lot of damage from needing to be in Defiance for Equilibrium and Inner Beast spam and it actually still had some management left outside of using your single braincell to remember to press the "hurr durr Fell Cleave" button.

If only these 5 human beings could design and balance 21 unique jobs while perfectly distributing their passion to only the jobs they like, as well as collaborating with each other on the larger combat system and dictating the limits to the encounter designers!

Them only having 5 job designers is still their own problem to solve. It may have worked in ARR when we had 10 jobs, and those 4 people at the time still had a lot of creativity in them, but it evidently doesn't work with our current 19 and soon 21 jobs.

We're not obligated to just go "Oh, they only have 5 job designers so I guess we just have to accept that job design is awful."

[Aravell]

I don't think it's meant to be "fun" it's meant to be balanced. The goal is to make sure that all classes are equally competitive, and they all bring the same tools to a fight. In that sense it succeeds. But fun, eh not really. It's fine if one or two classes have a set two minute rotation, but all of them is bad. There's no variety. For a game that has over 20 classes it really only has about 3.

In my opinion, if someone designing a game doesn't have 'fun' as their number 1 priority, they've failed at their job. Games should be fun, they can balance after if needed, but fun really should be their priority.

[Absurdity]

In my opinion, if someone designing a game doesn't have 'fun' as their number 1 priority, they've failed at their job. Games should be fun, they can balance after if needed, but fun really should be their priority.

I think the other possibility is more concerning, that they actually consider the current combat and job design to be fun.

[Yuella]

It's because HW raid numbers. BRD vs MCH ratio was like 80-20 even though it's fine because hardcore players can switch to BRD and casuals don't care that MCH is not meta.