7.0 Tank Wishlist

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

As fun as the idea is, the game's code seems to require mobs to be completely stationary in order to 'cast' actions. This is true even for instantaneous events like auto-attacks, which is why you see mobs stutter step when you're moving them around. There are some cases in older content where a large displacement in mob position could actually cancel a cast that's supposed to be uninterruptable, or could prevent a cast from even being initiated in the first place.

I'm not sure if this was ever formally fixed, but it's at least part of the reason why all the player generated draw-in/knockback effects were removed from PvE in Stormblood.

To be fair, Holmgang had the pull-in effect well past even Stormblood afaik, and it wasn't ever useful outside of like...2 instances in this game's history (T9 & Leviathan). 99.9% of mobs that used actual mechanics were immune to being moved in any way, so at best you could interrupt some niche examples like the Dreadtooth dudes in Leviathan. They removed most of the push around stuff like fluid aura and that one that MCH had(?) simply because they were just annoying to the tank and caused endless complaints back then.

A pull in skill exclusive to tanks would be a pretty inoffensive addition, and open the door to doing stuff like adding more caster enemies to dungeon packs, or add actual mechanics that require positioning a stationary add that could be pulled. Wouldn't even be hard either, they could literally copy-paste the old holmgang code minus invuln & rooting you that still exists in the game (as several enemies do use the old Holmgang skill to pull you in & bind you in solo instances/halatali hm)

For the topic:

-Re-balance tank healing. Bloodwhetting 100% needs to be nerfed so thats its heals once per GCD like PLD's Blade combo (speaking of which, can also do with a reduction in the healing it gives), not per target. Equilibirum can lose the upfront healing or the regen. Shake it off/Veil can have their healing reduced a bit. GNB should basically be the standard of tank healing - can help supply passive healing with an occasional burst, but not enough to carry a pull on its own infinitely.

[Oizen]

If I had to pick DRK changes without going the complete rework route I'd do something like this:

old skills:

-Dark Mind: Changed from 20% Magic mit to 10% Mit and additional 10% Magic mit
-Dark Missionary: Changed from 10% Magic mit to 10% Mit
These skills feel awful in a good deal of content that focus on physical damage, mechanics like Harrowing Hell, Criterion, normal dungeons, Deep Dungeons and so on. These changes would make Dark Knights mitigations less specialized and available in all content

-The Blackest Night: Dark Arts stack is granted upon the effect ending
Similar to above, due to how gear scaling works in this game, a good deal of content does not do enough to allow TBN to work properly resulting it either using it at a steep damage loss, or not using it at all. With the additions of the other 3 lv 82 tank mits, I don't think this would be that much of an issue.

Abyssal Drain: Decoupled from Carve and spit and turned into a GCD. This gcd consumes all of your accumulated Dark Side, and provides healing and does damage based on how much was consumed. Somewhat a return to allow for the old Abyssal Drain spam, which would be completely fine seeing how powerful tools like Bloodwhetting are. Dark Knight's sustain has fallen far behind the other 3, and this would be an interesting way to let it catch up, while also making Darkside a more interesting mechanic. The current version is just so woefully under powered. Cooldown could be something like 30s

In reality I'm expecting next to nothing, but thats my shot at "fixing" dark knight without changing or removing mechanics.

[Lyth]

...

It wasn't Holmgang's draw-in effect in isolation. There was a much more serious glitch involving mob direction/tracking which prevented casts altogether. This also affected raid encounters up to and including Alexander Prime. I suspect that this was one of the reasons why subsequent fight scripts ran off of a timer, starting from Stormblood on. Once awareness of this problem became widespread, the devs were obliged to address anything that could potentially break a future fight.

Rebalancing tank healing to more reasonable levels is important, but I think part of the ennui comes from having everything be regens or heals-on-demand. In particular, I want to see self-sustain effects where the potency of your self-heal is linked to your timing and awareness of incoming damage, similar to how Death Strike works.

[Marxam]

-Re-balance tank healing. Bloodwhetting 100% needs to be nerfed so thats its heals once per GCD like PLD's Blade combo (speaking of which, can also do with a reduction in the healing it gives), not per target. Equilibirum can lose the upfront healing or the regen. Shake it off/Veil can have their healing reduced a bit. GNB should basically be the standard of tank healing - can help supply passive healing with an occasional burst, but not enough to carry a pull on its own infinitely.

BW already heals once per gcd (4 gcds per use). This is the most nerfed WAR healing has ever been but the weak raid damage doesn't help emphasize that. Outgoing damage is so low that DPS is literally the new meta. No one complained that WAR's healing was op in P8S when WAR and PLD couldn't even clear door boss.
Also, PLD is just a bandaid fix till 7.0. The healing added to blade combo is just to bring it up to par. BW is fine as is since I doubt most WAR players are able to even get the 4 gcds in that time limit. Not to mention that if you don't attack you don't heal so if you get stunned in a mechanic well there goes your heal. WAR's carry potential is only because people compare dungeons and trials to savage and ultimate. Savage and ultimate content BW is only decent since it's a single target and at best you might mitigate 2 autos with those incoming heals. Roughly the same that TBN negates.

The regens on WAR are overkill and I agree its a bit much and not needed. Imo SiO needs to be a ToB effect instead of shields, ex. 8% HP increase and healing received with an extra 2% added when you use vengeance, BW, ToB respectively. It would make more sense since WAR is all about big HP and heals and the aoe convalescence effect is a throwback to when WAR had access to Mantra. Regens seems more like a GNB thing. As for Equilibrium I think it should have duality use. ex. If HP >50% its a 1200 potency regen, if HP <50% 1200 potency heal, not both at the same time.

Its basically the niches that each tanks has, PLD is blocking, DRK is shields, WAR is heals, GNB is regens.

[GoatOfWar]

Change DRK's animations to something more impactful, go copy Monster Hunter or FFVII-R or something.
Remove Shadow Friend, it's like the most anticlimactic skill in the game. Oh I'm a badass knight with a giant sword and my ultimate move is to... let someone else hit the enemy for me.

Give me something like this:

We already have War for slow gameplay.

[rawker]

Also, PLD is just a bandaid fix till 7.0.

May I know what live letter is this mentioned from?

[Arohk]

As fun as the idea is, the game's code seems to require mobs to be completely stationary in order to 'cast' actions.

No, the mechanic to pull enemies in already exists in the game.

in PvP Warrior got Blota

Blota Ability Instant 15s - 15y
0y Instantly draws target to your side.
Additional Effect: Heavy +75%
Duration: 3s

and Dark knight got Salteed Earth

Salted Earth Ability Instant 30s - 0y
10y Instantly draws nearby enemies to your side, and creates a patch of salted earth at your feet, dealing unaspected damage over time to any enemies inside.
Potency: 2,000
Duration: 10s
Additional Effect: Gradually restores your HP and reduces damage taken by 20% while standing in the patch of salted earth
Cure Potency: 2,000


and there are some dungeon bosses that can pull adds to them. (the sukkubus in haukke manor hard)

[Lyth]

...

I think the point being made is that BW applies one 400 cure potency self heal per enemy struck with said weaponskill, while the Confiteor combo applies one 400 cure potency self heal per spell, regardless of how many enemies are present. You can see this from the combat floating numbers as well. The description of BW does not reflect this. It's fairly obvious that this needs to be changed, and would have no impact on single target were it to be addressed.

Arguments about dps numbers on a single cherry picked past tier are irrelevant at this point, because they do not reflect current game balance. Tanks should have dps parity, but WAR has no issues with that at present (and historically, has generally had an unjustified advantage in dps across more past tiers than not).

SiO going from being an AoE TBN effect to becoming an AoE ToB effect would make it even more broken. ToB is effectively a shield + a self heal. That's why HP boosting effects in other games typically remove the bonus HP when the effect ends.

The niches that you describe don't really fit the current tanks. GNB has a singular regen action, PLD does all of those, and WAR does everything short of block.

I think it's fine to have a lifestealing tank that has solo potential, but this should take skill to perform, either with timed or context-dependent self-heals (i.e. heal more at lower HP, or heal proportionate to recently taken damage). WAR's current design philosophy is just a crutch for mediocre tanks who don't trust their healers, and the game would benefit greatly from this being changed.

...

There's no problem with applying draw in/knockback on a player. I was talking about applying it to a mob.

[Mayhemmer]

I think it's fine to have a lifestealing tank that has solo potential, but this should take skill to perform, either with timed or context-dependent self-heals (i.e. heal more at lower HP, or heal proportionate to recently taken damage). WAR's current design philosophy is just a crutch for mediocre tanks who don't trust their healers, and the game would benefit greatly from this being changed.

I'd really like if this happened. It's what I really want out of WAR. I just get so much for free on WAR that it's made it very dull for me.

[Rithy255]

I feel like the argument that "tanks heal too much" has some truth to it but gets misunderstood a lot, I believe healers would still be boring even if no tank had any healing. I'm also not a massive fan of the idea that we have to remove more from tanks to make healers feel better.

I guess I'm a bit at odds with how much Warrior heals In AOE, I think personally that should be changed to only 400 healing regardless of enemy count, Just to make it so you actually have to heal a warrior, The other thing I dislike is how Warrior is the Party healer tank...? That's something that just doesn't really fit the design I much rather Warrior be the Big Hp (passive above average tank hp would be cool), self sustaining tank that intimidates the enemy and mitigates their damage sort of support deal.

With PLD Their self healing is mostly tied to magic attacks, which I personally thing the healing on them should be removed, Instead Clemency should become a MP management healing ability that if used right will not ruin your burst, but if spammed it will ruin your burst, giving PLD the a similar trade off for clemency being a emergency button, but also giving it some general use case. (If that's too strong also healing, mp numbers can always be adjusted

GNB Self healing is really balanced, DRK barely self heals, So I don't see any issues with these two in particular.