All The Doom Threads Are Strange To Me

[Saraide]

Every critical engagement is at the quality of an alliance raid boss

So you have

-30 unique critical engagements
-3(4) Boses from castrum (I won’t include Lyon as a seperate boss)(if the two first bosses count separately is debatable)
-4(6) bosses from DRN (dahu and ghost are debatable)
-4(5) Boses from dal (again debatable on the first split boss)

So 41 at the bottom end, 45 at the top end, I’m not even discussing fates here, I think people underestimate the complexity of bozja’s fates but I’m intentionally omitting them to prove a point, an alliance raid has 12 Boses, so Bozja functionally gave us 3.5 whole extra alliance raids, I cannot overstate how much extra casual content of undeniable quality (since a lot of it is modelled off the universally beloved ivalice) that is

How many of those CEs were reskins of existing bosses?

[Supersnow845]

How many of those CEs were reskins of existing bosses?

Almost none considering while they shared character models the fight complexity wasn’t remotely comparable

Unless you want to argue that ivalice belias and Zadnor belias are remotely comparable in difficulty and design considering the difference in death rates

[Erzaa]

If you do them once and only once you are getting 3.5 extra alliance raid series worth of high quality bosses, where is the equivalent to that in EW’s battle content

Variant certainly doesn’t have it, variant has 12 bosses between 3 dungeons, if I generously include the 9 EO Boses (and I’m stretching it, DD bosses have like 1.5 mechanics) EW still falls 13 bosses short of ShB not even accounting for how much variability lost actions add

Even if you do this content once, it’s still not remotely comparable

I disagree.

Variant fights have fewer bosses, but they all have mechanics, you'll likely die the first time if you go in blind, probably die more than once even, different choices will also change their mechanics a little, which will throw you off.

As for Deep Dungeons are, to me, much more fun, because no run is exactly the same. It's more than just, oh boss has so and so mechanic.

You won't always have the same poms, the enemies will spawn in different locations, patrols come and go and can cause a run to go bad. All the mobs and bosses have to learned individually, because they can all kill you, and every time you reach a boss fight, your heart is racing because you don't know this fight, it's your first time reaching them, and you might die and lose all progress and need to restart. The next time you'll be just a little better, just a little faster, but you also just might get unlucky.

You're still adding up numbers and calling it quality. More, doesn't equal better.

If you do the Bozja CEs, yes, you have more bosses, and they all have unique mechanics, which you will learn and get the hang of after a few deaths. Then you need to repeat them 90 or 180 times or whatever to get your reward.

If you do the Variant Dungeons and Deep Dungeons, yes, you have fewer bosses, and they all have unique mechanics, which you will learn and get the hang of after a few deaths. You need to repeat Variant Dungeons, what? maybe 30 times to get your reward. That means less grind, less chance of you getting bored and frustrated at how long this is taking, progress faster, complete the content and feel good you beat something, got what you wanted out of it, and go find something else to do.

This is entertainment, not a job. If I want to repeat the same thing every single day for months or years on end, all I need to do is go to work in the morning.

I mean, like... You repeat roulettes daily, you repeat the same content over and over daily, and then you get into situations where everyone just wants this over and done with as quick as possible. The tank doesn't pull wall to wall? Complain about tank players wasting your time. The healer isn't keeping up? Complain about how healers are wasting your time. The dps isn't using AOE rotation? Complain that dps are wasting your time. That doesn't come from roulettes not having variety, or having bad content. It comes from the fact you've done all that content so many times, it's boring to you.

Bozja/Eureka zones are no different. You're just repeating content over and over, except now, because Endwalker's content is completed a little sooner, all of a sudden, ah! now the game is bad, I'm not repeating things so there's no grind and no grind means no quality.

But how many people complained that Bozja/Eureka were miserable experiences in previous expansions? That they were boring to do?

[Soltari]

One real problem FF14 is facing has been coming for a long time now, and started way back in stormblood.

The difficulty creep of Extreme trials from more "midcore" content during ARR and Heavensward, to harder and harder mechanics with each expansion culminating in EW extreme trials which IS NOT what one could consider "midcore" anymore. EW extreme trials are as difficult as savage raids. Remember, they didnt used to be this way.

The top end raiding player base screamed and screamed for more content throughout the last 3 expansions and Square Enix responded by making the extreme versions of trials more and more difficult.

So the players who love midcore content looked towards other content that meshed with their playstyle and got Eureka in Stormblood, and Bozja in Shadowbringers, then nothing in Endwalker. EX trials aren't "midcore" anymore AND there is no grind to test the midcore playerbase (thanks to mount farms being savage level basically).

Yoshi needs to look at the difficulty of Extreme trials and scale the difficulty back in the next expansion to micore levels. Top end raiders already have Savage and Ultimates before you come at me with the "there won't be enough content for high end raiders" argument.

[Erzaa]

There's nothing equivalent to large group of players with a difficulty hovering somewhere between casual and extreme. Endwalker came with plenty of content, but it is targeted to casual or high-end, and in different numbers. There's nothing in Endwalker for players who want to play with large groups and have a difficulty above casual and with good recovery, but not to the level of mechanics of extremes.

Alright, I see your point. But how many of those players would've preferred to do that content fewer times to get their reward, and not have to endlessly grind for months?

Because, I did Eureka and Bozja long after it relevant content. And, while on weekends during peak hours, there's usually people there, I can tell you numerous times I went in, and it was empty, I was alone, or maybe one other person. I ended up soloing most of it, and even had to wait for a weekend to do the raids.

That kind of content will either die as soon as players get everything they want out of it, leaving newer players without the means to do it, which makes the grind even harder and longer, or make it an infinite grind and then everyone complains that it's too long.

I can see the value of having it, even if I personally don't enjoy it, but it is a double edged sword. You can solo most FATEs and CEs in Bozja, but how would you solo the raids?

Meanwhile, Variant can be solo'ed by newer players who are late to the party, especially players like me who haven't an interest in high-end raiding, as can Deep Dungeons, even if farming aetherpool will take a bit longer alone, and they still provide a perfect level of difficulty, at least at first. And by the time you're used to the fights, know them and they're a snoozefest, you're already close to finishing them, that it doesn't seem like a drag.

[Merrigan]

Well, if you've been on WOW... Or any MMORPG really, even if the forums aren't always very active for others: you already know that the forums MUST criticize the game. Simply being satisfied is a ban, pure and simple.

Joking aside, I do think there's a lot of tension on the forums at the moment. FFXIV forums are also quick to accuse defenders of the game of "fanboy" or "fangirl" without really paying attention to the arguments put forward. In general, people also sometimes ask for too much. Most of the time, this is due to a lack of knowledge of the development process: having spoken to a number of people in the industry, I've found that players' requests are often met with howls of laughter, because they are unfeasible or would require too great a sacrifice. To give just one example, the demand for constantly renewed content (and not just on FF: on all the big MMORPGs) is impossible to satisfy when you consider that some people log on absolutely every day. Under these conditions, it's impossible not to be repetitive.

Another example (... don't hit me): the thread asking for characters' hands to be redone. Typical. A new feature is added, but it's never enough. Is it really important? No. The vast majority of people don't look at their characters' hands, and many pieces of equipment prevent them from being visible anyway. But people do ask for it, without necessarily realizing the work and computer perf it requires.

If all requests were examined and respected, releasing an extension would take not two years, not four, but ten. And people are already chomping at the bit after a few short years, complaining about the repetitive nature of the content and the fact that they need the next extension.

I'm not saying that the game is perfect. There are many things that need to be improved. We can criticize the fact that the game doesn't renew itself enough. Between wow, which is caught up in a kind of frantic flight to novelty (at the risk of not developing some very good ideas) and FFXIV, which rests on its laurels by repeating certain systems from years ago; it would be good to find an in-between. I'm thinking in particular of the Memoquartz system and combat in general. But let's just say the mentality being a little... Capricious, is part of the "MMORPG culture". And FFXIV is no exception.

[GoatOfWar]

It's a liveservice game with no long term content.
It's an mmo where people don't need to play together.
It's an rpg without rpg elements.
It uses a class based system but makes them all the same.
It provides some challenges but fails to deliver on rewards to incentivise anyone to do them.

XIV is just not a good game.
I honestly could go on for hours.
You can farm mounts but have nowhere to show them off.
You can farm better gear but it's only useful in the content you got it from.
You can get housing items but the housing system is terrible so most players don't even have one.

Nothing in this game matters or makes a difference.

[Mostly_Raxus]

Snip

i know, its almost like these ingrates think they pay for the game, and monthly at that LOL what fools, they haven't given money since before ARR launched so why should square be responsible providing meaningful contents thats carries in to every sub cycle..

and how dare consumers ask a triple A game company to keep the in game models up to date with simple rigging and texture pack updates.. its not like modders do it for free already with little effort..

thank goodness we have developers working so hard by taking entire patch cycles off paid to also get paid working on ff16 as well, otherwise the game would of crashed without their constant vigil...

*Cough Cough* excuse me, i seem to be choking on sarcasm..

[Erzaa]

i know, its almost like these ingrates think they pay for the game, and monthly at that LOL what fools, they haven't given money since before ARR launched so why should square be responsible providing meaningful contents thats carries in to every sub cycle..

and how dare consumers ask a triple A game company to keep the in game models up to date with simple rigging and texture pack updates.. its not like modders do it for free already with little effort..

thank goodness we have developers working so hard by taking entire patch cycles off paid to also get paid working on ff16 as well, otherwise the game would of crashed without their constant vigil...

*Cough Cough* excuse me, i seem to be choking on sarcasm..

You pay for the game, but aren't happy with what you're provided, you take your money elsewhere. I'm not being sarcastic or "just quit the game...", more like, if truly enough people aren't happy with the state of the game and took their money elsewhere, SE would notice and make changes.

I feel, most people who complain on the forums that the game is in a terrible state but refuse to unsub, are worried, because deep down, they know that most people really wouldn't follow. It wouldn't be a WoW Exodus and the game would be just fine without them, and most people, even with a few pet peeves here and there, are happy with the game.

[Mostly_Raxus]

You pay for the game, but aren't happy with what you're provided, you take your money elsewhere. I'm not being sarcastic or "just quit the game...", more like, if truly enough people aren't happy with the state of the game and took their money elsewhere, SE would notice and make changes.

I feel, most people who complain on the forums that the game is in a terrible state but refuse to unsub, are worried, because deep down, they know that most people really wouldn't follow. It wouldn't be a WoW Exodus and the game would be just fine without them, and most people, even with a few pet peeves here and there, are happy with the game.

well there goes any discourse, if we like the game enough that we want it to improve we should just quit everyone, no point actually fighting for change, no need for civil rights in our countries people, we can just leave instead..

you dont want a discussion, you want a echo chamber that constantly validates your purchase of the game, your fragile ego wont allow the game to improve because you will never admit there is a problem in fear of you admitting you made a poor choice.