I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Supersnow845]

I'm pretty sure the healer shortages were because of the fights being more of a mitigation check than a healing check. If someone dies to Dominion, it's usually a caster, and it's usually the melee not using Feint. Same with Stomp Dead in P1. I know a lot of healers were sick of being blamed for not healing when they already put up everything they could and the melee missed Feint so someone dies with barely 100 overkill.

This is 100% it

The amount of times the healer would cop the blame for the BLM drifting their rotation and just deciding that addle didn’t need to be pressed was 8’s (and the wider abyssos) problem for healers

If you are going to force healers to rely on the DPS pressing their mitigation buttons don’t be surprised if the healers get sick of it

[Eisi]

This is 100% it

The amount of times the healer would cop the blame for the BLM drifting their rotation and just deciding that addle didn’t need to be pressed was 8’s (and the wider abyssos) problem for healers

If you are going to force healers to rely on the DPS pressing their mitigation buttons don’t be surprised if the healers get sick of it

What about PvP? Healers are very popular there and other jobs have to take a lot of responsibility for their own survival.

I think if we drastically reduced healer's access to healing abilities in PvE, with every heal being on a cooldown and simply not having the tools to account for other's failure past a point while at the same time expanding on mitigation and healing on the part of the DPS we might be able to foster a culture where everybody sees it as their responsibility to ensure their own and the parties' survival.

Remember, this game has actually managed to make it normal for healers to DPS most of the time. You can make it normal for DPS to mitigate. Just don't allow for much blame to fall upon healers anymore. At the same time increase their DPS and give them more interesting Damage buttons.

It already happened in PvP and nobody but the staunchest defender of the most antiquated of trinity models has anything but praise to offer for it.

[Supersnow845]

What about PvP? Healers are very popular there and other jobs have to take a lot of responsibility for their own survival.

I think if we drastically reduced healer's access to healing abilities in PvE, with every heal being on a cooldown and simply not having the tools to account for other's failure past a point while at the same time expanding on mitigation and healing on the part of the DPS we might be able to foster a culture where everybody sees it as their responsibility to ensure their own and the parties' survival.

Remember, this game has actually managed to make it normal for healers to DPS most of the time. You can make it normal for DPS to mitigate. Just don't allow for much blame to fall upon healers anymore. At the same time increase their DPS and give them more interesting Damage buttons.

It already happened in PvP and nobody but the staunchest defender of the most antiquated of trinity models has anything but praise to offer for it.

At that point you functionally don’t even have a holy trinity anymore, you have 3 colours of DPS, PVP isn’t remotely comparable because every class has to have some means of supporting themself when they are alone or when they are cornered

You could probably force a change in habits if you took mitigation away from the tanks and healers and forced enough of it onto the DPS that it became “press this or die” (though they would probably still play chicken with each other to actually press it) but does anyone actually want that design

[Eisi]

At that point you functionally don’t even have a holy trinity anymore, you have 3 colours of DPS, PVP isn’t remotely comparable because every class has to have some means of supporting themself when they are alone or when they are cornered

This is wrong. In the olden times before patch 6.1 PvP exactly followed this holy trinity model with the healers being almost solely responsible for the parties' survival. Healer difference was the overwhelmingly dominant cause of one team's failure and another's success.

The changes that 6.1 made effectively led to exactly what you say: You functionally have no holy trinity anymore in PvP. Instead jobs are designed with the job fantasy in mind, they are no longer hermetically sealed off from certain domains. Roles serve as suggestions rather than strict guidelines. And to be honest with you PvP is all the better for it. Job design is so much better than in PvE, it's not even close.

Had Square Enix held onto antiquated notions of the trinity, we would have never had this change. Sometimes you have to eat that holy cow and it turns out it's delicious. Actually massive W on SE's part, they are often extremely conservative about their design, so to be that courageous in PvP deserves nothing but praise imo. I mean it was a success at the end of the day, but one only possible when thinking outside of traditional notions such as the upholding of an ultra-strict and inflexible holy trinity - which they already really failed at in PvE considering 80% of what healers do is press DPS buttons.

You could probably force a change in habits if you took mitigation away from the tanks and healers and forced enough of it onto the DPS that it became “press this or die” (though they would probably still play chicken with each other to actually press it) but does anyone actually want that design

As an avid Feint/Mantra/Riddle of Earth/Bloodbath/Second Wind presser yeah I would be on board with that. Sometimes I even chug a Hyper-Potion. Then again I main Monk which has relatively few buttons to press and is actually well designed.

This is effectively what I'm asking for, just cripple healer's abilities and give them more DPS buttons instead to balance it out. In fact get rid of spammable heals. Force DPS to take responsibility for the parties' survival as an added challenge.