Disruptive Frontline Gameplay

[AriannaStormwake]

i think also disrupting is sort of peoples defeatist attitude and premades with drk you say things like"let them win so i get my free exp for no effort" i dislike such people for obvious reasons
why dont you put those in their own queues to steamroll and afk against others that play the same as them huh?
do they have a reason why those 2 kind of players have no separate pvp map instances of their own

when i get teams who have lowscore third place and are ganked by premades id rather leave i need the tomes not the exp but prefer 2nd place than 3rd with no score
can do castrum/dalriada on alts while waiting for the 30 mins debuff on my main its not a big deal i just prefer teams who atleast try(like yesterdays first place win we got from the very beginning of the match)

not angry about these things just upset or shocked?

[Doozer]

Every day I do Frontlines it's the same premade group just steamrolling everyone. It's supposed to be objective based on all maps but this one team almost completely ignores objectives and just nukes every enemy player. There is no effective counter because even if you kill one of them your team will still lose.

FL is impossible to win on Crystal if one specific group of players is in the match, unless they're on your team. It's no longer competitive, it's just They Win and that's all. Something needs to be changed about the ability to stack a team full of ASTs with one DRK because that's literally all it takes to guarantee a win, and most players are above that kind of tactic.

[Mawlzy]

Every day I do Frontlines it's the same premade group just steamrolling everyone. It's supposed to be objective based on all maps but this one team almost completely ignores objectives and just nukes every enemy player. There is no effective counter because even if you kill one of them your team will still lose.

FL is impossible to win on Crystal if one specific group of players is in the match, unless they're on your team. It's no longer competitive, it's just They Win and that's all. Something needs to be changed about the ability to stack a team full of ASTs with one DRK because that's literally all it takes to guarantee a win, and most players are above that kind of tactic.

Probably worth noting that the only people who have definitive stats on this are SQEX themselves. They can determine unequivocally:

The impact of premades on team win-rates
The win-rates of premades overall
The win-rates of premades as a function of composition

My strong suspicion is that if they take the trouble to analyze such data, the problems will leap out at them like a burst of synchronized LBs.

[Chasingstars]

Queues for FL as notAstro/notDrk/notDrg/notBrd
Party is all DPS
There is two astros in the 2nd party and no drks
There is a drk in 3rd party and no astros
Joy....
Swap to astro
Nobody swaps to a tank job until halfway through the match, usually war or pld
It could be 2nd or 3rd place for where our team comes in
If its 1st place it will feel more unbelievable as if a miracle occurred
Other matches I might play reaper or bard
there is a nagging feeling in the back of my head, to just play dark knight
The same sort of feeling a tank main gets when it feels like you could do the job better

[IDontPetLalas]

Probably worth noting that the only people who have definitive stats on this are SQEX themselves. They can determine unequivocally:

The impact of premades on team win-rates
The win-rates of premades overall
The win-rates of premades as a function of composition

My strong suspicion is that if they take the trouble to analyze such data, the problems will leap out at them like a burst of synchronized LBs.

and then they'll do what? I don't expect them to block premades, and I wouldn't want them to block premades, either. So fine- what about adjusting the algorithm so that specific premades can't enter? Well, the counter-argument to that is (1) unless it's coded in that nothing blocks anyone from changing once they're inside- so someone in that pre-made could just change roles anyway and (2) there's nothing to block someone at any time from changing to a more needed role in an
alliance , but people frequently don't (and thanks to those of you who do)- so why penalize premade compositions?

In addition. let's say that having a premade does have a statistical advantage. I expect that - yes, it does, it would be interesting to know just how big it is, it likely varies according to the premade, and isn't just based upon a specific composition by job, I would hope Square also takes specific players so that player experience could also be analyzed (win rates, number of FL matches, years, whatever).

[Mawlzy]

and then they'll do what? I don't expect them to block premades, and I wouldn't want them to block premades, either. So fine- what about adjusting the algorithm so that specific premades can't enter? Well, the counter-argument to that is (1) unless it's coded in that nothing blocks anyone from changing once they're inside- so someone in that pre-made could just change roles anyway and (2) there's nothing to block someone at any time from changing to a more needed role in an
alliance , but people frequently don't (and thanks to those of you who do)- so why penalize premade compositions?

In addition. let's say that having a premade does have a statistical advantage. I expect that - yes, it does, it would be interesting to know just how big it is, it likely varies according to the premade, and isn't just based upon a specific composition by job, I would hope Square also takes specific players so that player experience could also be analyzed (win rates, number of FL matches, years, whatever).

What they'd do would depend on what their data reveals and whether they regard the current situation as flawed. I have a strong perception there's a problem, but I can't quantify it. Just based on playing experience, I think separate queues for solos and parties would eliminate most of the problems I see. And no doubt balance will continue to be tweaked.

[Doozer]

What they'd do would depend on what their data reveals and whether they regard the current situation as flawed. I have a strong perception there's a problem, but I can't quantify it. Just based on playing experience, I think separate queues for solos and parties would eliminate most of the problems I see. And no doubt balance will continue to be tweaked.

Unfortunately it isn't just premades, because I've seen a premade (DRK/AST/AST/AST) with at least two other ASTs in tow, getting just as much kill participation. I don't know how it could be done with the way the game is designed, but there needs to be some degree of restriction on how many of a job is in each alliance. Either that or nerf AoE damage to make AST less of a nuclear bomb when stacked up with so many of them.

I honestly wouldn't mind if my first suggestion made queue times longer for FL, because then I'd get into a match with a chance of winning. Right now it's 100% loss rate if these DRK/ASTx3+ groups are in the match. There's no competition if one team is guaranteed to win every time.

Also, today after seeing the same group again I decided to send one a tell since they're on the same world as me. It went about as well as you'd expect, since they don't care about ruining the game for other people:



It really shows that they believe they're entitled to the win more than anyone else, which actively disrupts the gameplay for most people in those matches.

[Mawlzy]

It really shows that they believe they're entitled to the win more than anyone else, which actively disrupts the gameplay for most people in those matches.

Yeah it's toxic and really rather pathetic. For the "fun" of four, 68 suffer. I guess my emphasis on separating queues stems from the fact that on Aether, provided there is no premade, the games tend to be mostly competitive and enjoyable. (Except Shatter, but that's a different issue.) Seems that without the added coordination, people are countering the meta to some extent. That said, it might be an improvement to detune AST.

[Bonoki]

Unfortunately it isn't just premades, because I've seen a premade (DRK/AST/AST/AST) with at least two other ASTs in tow, getting just as much kill participation. I don't know how it could be done with the way the game is designed, but there needs to be some degree of restriction on how many of a job is in each alliance. Either that or nerf AoE damage to make AST less of a nuclear bomb when stacked up with so many of them.

I honestly wouldn't mind if my first suggestion made queue times longer for FL, because then I'd get into a match with a chance of winning. Right now it's 100% loss rate if these DRK/ASTx3+ groups are in the match. There's no competition if one team is guaranteed to win every time.

Also, today after seeing the same group again I decided to send one a tell since they're on the same world as me. It went about as well as you'd expect, since they don't care about ruining the game for other people:



It really shows that they believe they're entitled to the win more than anyone else, which actively disrupts the gameplay for most people in those matches.

I was in an FC that has a premades from Dynamis in it, and they have a discord channel where they like to post what they call "Cry more salt" when people DM them stuff like this. They said they almost have more fun seeing people get upset over than they do actually winning so they play every day cause the drama they build is fun.

One person tried to even tell me that this is the spirit of PvP and you aren't really PvPing if you aren't flexing your wins. lol...

[IDontPetLalas]

Unfortunately it isn't just premades, because I've seen a premade (DRK/AST/AST/AST) with at least two other ASTs in tow, getting just as much kill participation. I don't know how it could be done with the way the game is designed, but there needs to be some degree of restriction on how many of a job is in each alliance. Either that or nerf AoE damage to make AST less of a nuclear bomb when stacked up with so many of them.

I honestly wouldn't mind if my first suggestion made queue times longer for FL, because then I'd get into a match with a chance of winning. Right now it's 100% loss rate if these DRK/ASTx3+ groups are in the match. There's no competition if one team is guaranteed to win every time.

Also, today after seeing the same group again I decided to send one a tell since they're on the same world as me. It went about as well as you'd expect, since they don't care about ruining the game for other people:



It really shows that they believe they're entitled to the win more than anyone else, which actively disrupts the gameplay for most people in those matches.

It's not an "AST issue". Prior to this, it was A "SMN" issue. If you nerf ASTs (and this wouldn't be the first time), then it would be "nerf DRKs", not to mention there have been multiple cries to nerf various melee jobs.

Also- as you say, limiting the number of a specific job that can queue isn't practical. imagine, you want to queue as - let's say- a machinist. Game says - nope- too many in queue? Or- you've already entered, you want to switch. but the game says- sorry , we have "x" number of machinists, you can't have more? I don't see that working.

The most practical suggestion I've seen is likely a combination of adjustments to several jobs, and that would include limiting AOE effects to no more than 5 players at a time, so that it could be applied to CC as well as FL, since the devs seem very reluctant to separate FL and CC job development.

Finally- I don't know what the screen grab has to do with this discussion? If someone forms a premade and they beat you, it isn't "disruptive gameplay", they're not "ruining the game for other people". They're playing with their friends. You can do the same.

Regarding "guaranteed to win" pretty rare to see a premade that never loses, but if that's how you feel when you're up against that specific premade then it goes double-why not form a premade, or if you know them well by know, try shot-calling?