7.0 Tank Wishlist

[Mesarthim]

TBN shouldn't be able to be overwritten by another DRK's TBN. That's just stupid game design that puts me right out of 3000 MP.

There's my wish.

[Rithy255]

TBN shouldn't be able to be overwritten by another DRK's TBN. That's just stupid game design that puts me right out of 3000 MP.

There's my wish.

I think TBN shouldn't be punishing darks with massive potency loss.

I like the "risk vs reward" aspect of TBN it adds a lot of skill expression to Dark Knight, the issue is that in reality its all risk no reward.
I much rather TBN Actually Increases the next Edge of shadow / flood of shadow by lets say 20%? if used correctly on a target, instead of this punishing ability that you only use when you know it will break.

[Shurrikhan]

I think TBN shouldn't be punishing darks with massive potency loss.

I like the "risk vs reward" aspect of TBN it adds a lot of skill expression to Dark Knight, the issue is that in reality its all risk no reward.
I much rather TBN Actually Increases the next Edge of shadow / flood of shadow by lets say 20%? if used correctly on a target, instead of this punishing ability that you only use when you know it will break.

A reward missed is a punishment. There's no real difference between the two.

If something you can optimize feels more like a punishment than a reward, it generally means only either that the job is tuned such that it needs more perfect use of the given skill than its competitors do of their analogs and/or the type of output rewarded isn't well valued due to the present content tuning and/or errant community perceptions.

Make TBN damage-positive via the bonus damage of 20% of an Edge/Flood and now you've got over 400 relative potency per minute dependent on your using (and popping) TBN on CD.

I'm not against softening the punishment a bit, but rewards missed are still punishment, and it's best to assume that any maximum ppm they produce is just going to be balanced out directly (removed from the skill) or indirectly (other skills of that level range will lose a bit of potency in compensation).

[Lyth]

The Blackest Night (Ability/Cost: 0 MP/Recast: 20s): Creates a barrier around self or target party member that absorbs damage totaling 25% of target's maximum HP. Duration: 7s
Grants Dark Arts if the barrier is active on target when a red arrow action is used (tankbuster).

You could even merge it with Oblation and give it a second charge, because it doesn't need to break every time.

[Rithy255]

A reward missed is a punishment. There's no real difference between the two.

If something you can optimize feels more like a punishment than a reward, it generally means only either that the job is tuned such that it needs more perfect use of the given skill than its competitors do of their analogs and/or the type of output rewarded isn't well valued due to the present content tuning and/or errant community perceptions.

Make TBN damage-positive via the bonus damage of 20% of an Edge/Flood and now you've got over 400 relative potency per minute dependent on your using (and popping) TBN on CD.

Having something to optimize doesn't always have to feel like a punishment to me I think Third eye is a good example of something to optimize that doesn't feel like you're losing too much if you don't always time it correctly, it gives a job high celling which I view always as a good thing.

Maybe 20% increase is too large, but you can decrease that value to 10% or 5% (or even lower), I think rewarding Dark Knight with a slight damage gain instead of outright punishing the dark knight for 460 Potency each time TBN doesn't pop is way more punishing as a feel.

I think all tanks could use a small gain on proper defensive use anyway, I just thought DRK's current TBN isn't really a fun skill to use, it's more one that just feels punishing when other tanks get what dark knight has but for free, TBN's current design would make more sense if we were in shadowbringers honestly where it had so much more value then other tank defensives.

[Jidka]

I don't main DRK but if you don't take enough damage to break it, do you really use TBN ?

I do because I prefere safety over dps but most DRK I meet seem to prefer dps over safety.

[Lyth]

...

The issue isn't really about how the gain is framed. If it's a potency gain, there's a pressure on you to use the defensive on recast when playing optimally. You'd be obliged to break TBN every 15 seconds to maximize your performance. This is the same reason why Shield Swipe was removed after Stormblood, due to its interaction with Sheltron.

I personally think this is an extreme approach, though. It's fun to reward the player with a counterattack after they use a defensive action. You just need to change the design that there are specific conditions under which that effect triggers (i.e. only on red arrow tankbusters). It's still mandatory at set intervals, except the frequency of this is just once every 1-2 minutes as opposed to all the time. And it also encourages you to shield your co-tank for extra damage output.

[Rithy255]

The issue isn't really about how the gain is framed. If it's a potency gain, there's a pressure on you to use the defensive on recast when playing optimally. You'd be obliged to break TBN every 15 seconds to maximize your performance. This is the same reason why Shield Swipe was removed after Stormblood, due to its interaction with Sheltron.

I personally think this is an extreme approach, though. It's fun to reward the player with a counterattack after they use a defensive action. You just need to change the design that there are specific conditions under which that effect triggers (i.e. only on red arrow tankbusters). It's still mandatory at set intervals, except the frequency of this is just once every 1-2 minutes as opposed to all the time. And it also encourages you to shield your co-tank for extra damage output.

Only on red arrow tank busters makes it pointless, because you're already going to use short cd's on tank busters, it's not even a reward at that point, The entire point would be for DRK's knowing fights well in this example would reward them with the tiniest of damage margins, it would actually encourage good use... not just when the game tells you outright to use your skill, I feel like that takes out all the fun out in actually maximising.

I just find the whole idea that if you're not maximising your damage at all times that it's somehow suddenly a bad thing a bit odd... Like I said Third eye rewards samurais perfectly fine currently, I don't see many complain about third eye on samurai.

I just don't see how it's a bad thing in the first place for tanks (dark knight in this case) to actively be rewarded for using proper timing, I'm not saying counter attacks should be tied to a massive chunk of tanks damage, I personally think it should be the smallest of bonuses for being able to pop it more often, even if you had better gear and it would be harder to pop you'd obviously be doing more damage anyway so I wouldn't even see how that's a issue.

[Mikey_R]

I don't main DRK but if you don't take enough damage to break it, do you really use TBN ?

I do because I prefere safety over dps but most DRK I meet seem to prefer dps over safety.

It isn't as simple as safety over DPS. If you aren't in any danger of dying after, then you are as safe as can be. If TBN doesn't break, the damage was minimal and so you can safely use other mitigation, if required, and be healed by other means, many of them being passive healing that take no extra effort from the healers, even if it is just using something to heal after a raid wide (remembering tanks take less damage than other jobs).

So really, it is safety whilst maximising damage which is done by taking encounter mechanics, healers and your own defensives into account.

[DRKoftheAzure]

3 pages in, and this thread already stopped being a wish list thread, and derailed off of the main subject, which is a 7.0 wish list...