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  1. #121
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,701
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Oizen View Post
    Do you really think they're going to nerf 3 other tanks for this?
    They have to, the tanks are borderline immortal as it is what do you want them to do with tanks next expansion, another finisher on fell cleave and a second charge of bloodwhetting, why do the healers and DRK have to be sacrificed at the alter of the whack tank balance because the tanks can’t accept the fact they shouldn’t be all three roles in one

    The support roles are dying and this stupid insistence on never nerfing anything is 100% the main reason for it
    (4)

  2. #122
    Player
    rawker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,197
    Character
    Rawker Stone
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    Are we really going to sit here and legit argue that DRK is frail, has tank survivability drifted so far that DRK is legit considered frail

    If anything DRK is at the top end of how survivable a tank should realistically be, GNB, WAR and PLD are comically overpowered
    To add to this, the skill ceiling for DRK is quite high, alongside GNB. In the hands of a good player who mained DRK since HW, you can barely notice a diff, in terms of survivability. I am sometimes in awe how my Carbuncle was able to sustain them and I know that I was slapping the ground the entire time. But on the flip side, there exist DRKs who only use TBN, and not much else.. and quite frankly, I am greatly stressed to the point of taking a quick 5-minute break to release any stored anger/frustration I have.

    So in the argument that the other 3 needs nerfing, the only thing that needs it is the red-green-blue tank... its self-healing is through the roof, the only time it dies is when the player is showing that dreaded connection issue icon beside its name.
    (0)

  3. #123
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    6,701
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by rawker View Post
    To add to this, the skill ceiling for DRK is quite high, alongside GNB. In the hands of a good player who mained DRK since HW, you can barely notice a diff, in terms of survivability. I am sometimes in awe how my Carbuncle was able to sustain them and I know that I was slapping the ground the entire time. But on the flip side, there exist DRKs who only use TBN, and not much else.. and quite frankly, I am greatly stressed to the point of taking a quick 5-minute break to release any stored anger/frustration I have.

    So in the argument that the other 3 needs nerfing, the only thing that needs it is the red-green-blue tank... its self-healing is through the roof, the only time it dies is when the player is showing that dreaded connection issue icon beside its name.

    GNB is mostly fine it just really doesn’t need such a powerful heal on heart of corundum, like SCH has to recite its excog to be stronger than a tank at its own healing skill, that’s problematic

    PLD needs to lose knights benediction on its shield gauge actions or the HP restoration on its magical combo, a PLD in its magical combo correctly rotating holy Shelton is harder to kill than a WAR

    WAR nuff said
    (2)

  4. #124
    Player
    rawker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,197
    Character
    Rawker Stone
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    PLD needs to lose knights benediction on its shield gauge actions or the HP restoration on its magical combo, a PLD in its magical combo correctly rotating holy Shelton is harder to kill than a WAR
    The gap between self healing for PLD, despite good, is worse compared to WAR and in a battle of attrition, will rubber band compared to WAR. It even has to stop doing dps to cast Clemency on himself should the healer struggles and dps not melting trash quicker.
    (0)

  5. #125
    Player
    fulminating's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2022
    Posts
    1,179
    Character
    Wind-up Everyone
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 52
    Quote Originally Posted by GoatOfWar View Post
    A knight with affinity for magicks, not too dissimilar from Pld but no healing. I think a cool identity for Drk would be to have the most and best shields of all tanks, but currently it doesn't. TBN is it's only shield and it got powercrept. Drk's defensive toolkit is just worse than what the others provide. It has all of it's healing tied to it's clunky invuln, PLD and War have strictly superior party mits, you are now expected to deal the least damage of all tanks, we are the only tank that risks a damage loss for using our mit (usually happens due to external mits). The list just goes on and on. Damage was all it had, but we weren't allowed that either and the War playerbase once again could not stand the idea of Drk doing anything better. So now Drk is just the worst at everything and nobody cares because we had 2 good tiers. I have no reason to doubt that we'll see this very same song and dance play out in DT; Drk does cool thing, streamer gets mad, now all tanks do cool thing, making it no longer interesting and Drk becomes worse warrior.
    Regarding damage, please look at any tier from 2.0 - 4.55 (ie when warrior and dark knight still had identities). The parts of it that SE seem to view as important enough to preserve are the fast burst - rather than getting a haste buff, it just gets lots of ogcds, gauge management although you have to squint a bit at that one given what they did to dark arts and the specialising in magic defence thing, which is kind of weird to keep with how they've made paladin a bit less physical oriented. I don't think they can fix this without either completely nuking shadowbringers onwards or reworking dark knight to be closer to how it was in either HW or SB.

    At some point they'll run out of room to add another finisher and have to rework it, but mch being in the same situation isn't exactly filling me with confidence there. A conspicuous meltdown or community backlash might hurry them up, but I don't expect to see a rework happen for dawntrail's media tour.

    Strictly superior party mits is a bit of a loaded one, pre-buffed shake/divine veil were pretty useless for the abyssos tier because everything had a bleed stapled to it. When they stopped obsessively adding bleeds to things they should have also nerfed the HoT component, but they didn't because they don't seem to nerf anything directly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oizen View Post
    Do you really think they're going to nerf 3 other tanks for this?
    They should but they won't.
    (0)

  6. #126
    Player
    Flay_wind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    404
    Character
    Lily D'kryl
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 97
    I'd like if SE just copy pasted PVP Salted Earth into PVE. I.e. draws in enemies in range, deals damage to enemies standing in the circle, DRK gets a regen while standing in it. Shorten recast time to a more reasonable 60 seconds.
    (2)
    Sometimes rumors are just... rumors.

  7. #127
    Player
    GoatOfWar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    976
    Character
    Pepper Oni
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Oizen View Post
    I have less issues with the hoops DRK has to jump through and more with the fact that it isn't rewarded for it.
    There are legitimate strengths that Dark Knight has, even things that no other tank has, and I'll even say I find the job inherently more interesting than FellCleave & FellCleave Accessories. The problem I have is that every strength it has comes with a draw back.
    Like this:

    TBN has a shorter CD than the other Tank Short Mits
    But its also Weaker
    And its the only one that can be a Damage loss, and no the game isn't really curated to see if TBN is even applicable in all content.
    The existance of oblation doesn't really even the playing field.
    Oh and you also just have no sustain, so you can very easily find yourself in scenarios where Dark Knight basically has no unique tools for tanking in certain content, and cant even restore the damage you'll take.

    Dark Mind has the strongest effect of 20% Mitigation, AND 60s CD
    Only against magic so theres a good chunk of content its not even applicable on


    Now the existance of all 3 of Dark Mind, Oblation and TBN make dark pretty tanky in magic only fights, and only there. But not so much so that I think its a notable upside. Dark Knight will be pressing 3-4 mits to get by things, to other tank's 2 mits.
    This isn't a bad thing, but the upsides of this rarely actually come into play, and on a tank thats already pretty high APM it can be chaotic.
    I also think since the over-buff to Shake it off, its really questionable why Heart of Light or Dark Missionary are ALSO magic locked, I don't think it would break the game if this skill was more applicable to all content and not just specific mechanics of specific fights.


    Basically all of this comes together to make a tank that is really frail and awkward in content the developers deliberately ignore when balancing the game. And with the addition of Criterion we can't even shrug that off anymore.
    You said before that you think that Dark mind should be a 10% 10% split between universal and magic mit, but i think a shield would make a lot more sense.
    A cool interaction with TBN would be that if TBN breaks, Dark mind gets a shield on it's next cast. Which would make mit planning a lot more interesting.
    (0)

  8. #128
    Player
    mallleable's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Posts
    1,282
    Character
    Malia Tri'el
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Flay_wind View Post
    I'd like if SE just copy pasted PVP Salted Earth into PVE. I.e. draws in enemies in range, deals damage to enemies standing in the circle, DRK gets a regen while standing in it. Shorten recast time to a more reasonable 60 seconds.
    Give Salted Earth a draw in

    Give Primal Rend a small knock back

    Let Shield Bash be an AOE stun

    GNB, idk just give it more damage I guess
    (0)

  9. #129
    Player
    mallleable's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Posts
    1,282
    Character
    Malia Tri'el
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    A new mechanic I want for GNB that kinda combines PVP's draw, and junction, and Doom 2016's Glory Kill mechanic

    - Change the name of Bloodfest to Reload
    - After completing a Gnashing Fang combo or Double Down, grant a short Bloodfest buff
    - Reload turns into like Quick Reload while under the effect of Bloodfest, an oGCD that grants one cartridge
    - Aurora turns in to a new ability that is a moderate instant heal when under Bloodfest
    - Heart of Corundum turns into a new ability that grants additional barrier HP when under Bloodfest
    - Using any of those buttons consumes Bloodfest
    (1)
    Last edited by mallleable; 02-15-2024 at 04:58 AM.

  10. #130
    Player
    Oizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Location
    playing other games like yoshida intended
    Posts
    2,411
    Character
    Alondite Ragnell
    World
    Marilith
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Flay_wind View Post
    I'd like if SE just copy pasted PVP Salted Earth into PVE. I.e. draws in enemies in range, deals damage to enemies standing in the circle, DRK gets a regen while standing in it. Shorten recast time to a more reasonable 60 seconds.
    I'm pretty sure if this was the case it would be treated as a pseudo raid-buff, which would be unique for a tank but I do wonder if it be a good idea to introduce that. The rest of the defensive effects and draw in of Salted Earth would be really fun in PvE though.

    I would love if salted earth became Dark Knight's utility move though, especially if Salt and Darkness gave a burst heal to everyone inside of it or something like that.
    (0)
    Last edited by Oizen; 02-15-2024 at 02:14 PM.

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