Thread: 7.0 Tank Wishlist

Originally Posted by Mesarthim

TBN shouldn't be able to be overwritten by another DRK's TBN. That's just stupid game design that puts me right out of 3000 MP.

There's my wish.

I think TBN shouldn't be punishing darks with massive potency loss.

I like the "risk vs reward" aspect of TBN it adds a lot of skill expression to Dark Knight, the issue is that in reality its all risk no reward.
I much rather TBN Actually Increases the next Edge of shadow / flood of shadow by lets say 20%? if used correctly on a target, instead of this punishing ability that you only use when you know it will break.

Originally Posted by Rithy255

I think TBN shouldn't be punishing darks with massive potency loss.

I like the "risk vs reward" aspect of TBN it adds a lot of skill expression to Dark Knight, the issue is that in reality its all risk no reward.
I much rather TBN Actually Increases the next Edge of shadow / flood of shadow by lets say 20%? if used correctly on a target, instead of this punishing ability that you only use when you know it will break.

A reward missed is a punishment. There's no real difference between the two.

If something you can optimize feels more like a punishment than a reward, it generally means only either that the job is tuned such that it needs more perfect use of the given skill than its competitors do of their analogs and/or the type of output rewarded isn't well valued due to the present content tuning and/or errant community perceptions.

Make TBN damage-positive via the bonus damage of 20% of an Edge/Flood and now you've got over 400 relative potency per minute dependent on your using (and popping) TBN on CD.

I'm not against softening the punishment a bit, but rewards missed are still punishment, and it's best to assume that any maximum ppm they produce is just going to be balanced out directly (removed from the skill) or indirectly (other skills of that level range will lose a bit of potency in compensation).

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

A reward missed is a punishment. There's no real difference between the two.

If something you can optimize feels more like a punishment than a reward, it generally means only either that the job is tuned such that it needs more perfect use of the given skill than its competitors do of their analogs and/or the type of output rewarded isn't well valued due to the present content tuning and/or errant community perceptions.

Make TBN damage-positive via the bonus damage of 20% of an Edge/Flood and now you've got over 400 relative potency per minute dependent on your using (and popping) TBN on CD.

Having something to optimize doesn't always have to feel like a punishment to me I think Third eye is a good example of something to optimize that doesn't feel like you're losing too much if you don't always time it correctly, it gives a job high celling which I view always as a good thing.

Maybe 20% increase is too large, but you can decrease that value to 10% or 5% (or even lower), I think rewarding Dark Knight with a slight damage gain instead of outright punishing the dark knight for 460 Potency each time TBN doesn't pop is way more punishing as a feel.

I think all tanks could use a small gain on proper defensive use anyway, I just thought DRK's current TBN isn't really a fun skill to use, it's more one that just feels punishing when other tanks get what dark knight has but for free, TBN's current design would make more sense if we were in shadowbringers honestly where it had so much more value then other tank defensives.

Originally Posted by Rithy255

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The issue isn't really about how the gain is framed. If it's a potency gain, there's a pressure on you to use the defensive on recast when playing optimally. You'd be obliged to break TBN every 15 seconds to maximize your performance. This is the same reason why Shield Swipe was removed after Stormblood, due to its interaction with Sheltron.

I personally think this is an extreme approach, though. It's fun to reward the player with a counterattack after they use a defensive action. You just need to change the design that there are specific conditions under which that effect triggers (i.e. only on red arrow tankbusters). It's still mandatory at set intervals, except the frequency of this is just once every 1-2 minutes as opposed to all the time. And it also encourages you to shield your co-tank for extra damage output.

The Blackest Night (Ability/Cost: 0 MP/Recast: 20s): Creates a barrier around self or target party member that absorbs damage totaling 25% of target's maximum HP. Duration: 7s
Grants Dark Arts if the barrier is active on target when a red arrow action is used (tankbuster).

You could even merge it with Oblation and give it a second charge, because it doesn't need to break every time.

I don't main DRK but if you don't take enough damage to break it, do you really use TBN ?

I do because I prefere safety over dps but most DRK I meet seem to prefer dps over safety.

Originally Posted by Jidka

I don't main DRK but if you don't take enough damage to break it, do you really use TBN ?

I do because I prefere safety over dps but most DRK I meet seem to prefer dps over safety.

It isn't as simple as safety over DPS. If you aren't in any danger of dying after, then you are as safe as can be. If TBN doesn't break, the damage was minimal and so you can safely use other mitigation, if required, and be healed by other means, many of them being passive healing that take no extra effort from the healers, even if it is just using something to heal after a raid wide (remembering tanks take less damage than other jobs).

So really, it is safety whilst maximising damage which is done by taking encounter mechanics, healers and your own defensives into account.