PL Woes

[Zaaku]

But PL doesn't create bad players. Players who lack any motivation to be good at their role will always be bad players, no matter what. Good players are people who do want to be good/better at their role and work toward that goal. It has nothing to do with how the levels are achieved, it has everything to do with how much motivation that player has to not suck at the game.

While this is true you cannot admit with a straight face that increasing the length of time and difficultly of the leveling process will not greatly diminish the sheer number of bad players. No one, no matter how inept at a game they may be, will learn NOTHING from leveling a job 4 hours a day for a month straight. Not to mention WHY would they? If you get stuck in the low 30's high 20's because you keep getting tossed from parties because you literally cannot function in the role you've chosen guess what? You stop playing it. Only a handful of stubborn time rich die hards would ever cap.

Am I saying everyone who reach 75 in FXI was proficient at their job? Several Nyzule Isle runs prove otherwise in my personal experience. That was something I only encountered a dozen or so times in 4 years of daily play. Challenging and extending leveling tends to make better players, weed out those without the aptitude for the role, and grants those who do cap a sense of relevance. That they survived the process of going from newbie to master and are now ready for end game.

[Xoo]

you kidding me? it was a pug group hell even my LS group explains fights before the fights and one thing the leader would always say is if the tank gets petrified WHM make sure to esuna them. No use trying to argue with you though your always quick to jump on the anti-PL bandwagon regardless of the situation.

That's right. You wanna fight about it now or later?

[Krausus]

That's right. You wanna fight about it now or later?

nah I'm good, pretty tired and time to go home.

[Arcell]

...and if you'd never had to use it before that very moment? Would you have even remembered? Especially if you were powerleveled up to Lv40+? Sorry, I'll keep knocking the negative repercussions of a broken battle system, the proliferation and abuse of PL because I do believe they bear a significant impact on the general quality of players.

They should have read the description of the spell. Any decent mage should know exactly what all the spells they currently have do. It's not like it's an incredibly complex spell. It removes negative status effects, that's it. The player in question clearly never even looked at what the spell did before and is thus a bad player regardless of how they obtained their levels. You can't fix that kind of stupid/lazy. Not to mention something like Esuna would have very limited, if any, use in an XP party so Moogle might be the first time they would use it regardless.

A good player would have read the description and would know what the spell does, there's no two ways about it.

[Xianghua]

...and if you'd never had to use it before that very moment? Would you have even remembered? Especially if you were powerleveled up to Lv40+? Sorry, I'll keep knocking the negative repercussions of a broken battle system, the proliferation and abuse of PL because I do believe they bear a significant impact on the general quality of players.

I was 50 cnj way before jobs came out. The 1st time I played white mage fully unlocked was CC. The minute I Saw Chimera do Scorpion Sting. and saw the poison. I knew to use the Esuna. Why? Because I knew what the spell did. I didn't need to go to an exp pt to learn what the spell did. I remember the spell because I am a good player. If you don't remember you have the spell that makes you a bad player and no amount of time spent an exp pt will make you remember.

[Xoo]

They should have read the description of the spell. Any decent mage should know exactly what all the spells they currently have do. It's not like it's an incredibly complex spell. It removes negative status effects, that's it. The player in question clearly never even looked at what the spell did before and is thus a bad player regardless of how they obtained their levels. You can't fix that kind of stupid/lazy. Not to mention something like Esuna would have very limited, if any, use in an XP party so Moogle might be the first time they would use it regardless.

A good player would have read the description and would know what the spell does, there's no two ways about it.

You're right, they should have read the effects of the ability. When they got it at Lv40, which they probably negated to do since at that point all they needed to get by was Curaga and Stoneskin.

[Xoo]

I was 50 cnj way before jobs came out. The 1st time I played white mage fully unlocked was CC. The minute I Saw Chimera do Scorpion Sting. and saw the poison. I knew to use the Esuna. Why? Because I knew what the spell did. I didn't need to go to an exp pt to learn what the spell did. I remember the spell because I am a good player. If you don't remember you have the spell that makes you a bad player and no amount of time spent an exp pt will make you remember.

Good for you, sincerely. You're a cut above. However, not everyone pays this much attention. If the battle system were slower and required more distinct action under far less forgiving circumstances, the guy would have learned what this spell/ability was long before he even hit 40. If not, approximately 60 seconds later he would have had a tank yelling at him to use it or get lost.

[Xianghua]

Good for you, sincerely. You're a cut above. However, not everyone pays this much attention. If the battle system were slower and required more distinct action under far less forgiving circumstances, the guy would have learned what this spell/ability was long before he even hit 40. If not, approximately 60 seconds later he would have had a tank yelling at him to use it or get lost.

How are you so sure? I knew a Whm on XI that was 75 and didn't know what benediction did. Slowing down the system will not make people learn. you CANNOT teach someone who doesn't want to learn. Chances are now even after being told. Kicked from party. That player still doesn't know how to use Esuna. Simply because he doesn't want to learn.

[Xoo]

How are you so sure? I knew a Whm on XI that was 75 and didn't know what benediction did. Slowing down the system will not make people learn. you CANNOT teach someone who doesn't want to learn. Chances are now even after being told. Kicked from party. That player still doesn't know how to use Esuna. Simply because he doesn't want to learn.

Find that very hard to believe, but I suppose it's possible. However, we're not entertaining rarities here. Player incompetence due to being powerleveled is the subject. As well, somehow we got off on attacking the OP for being a bad leader, which he very well may have been, but as I say they are both at fault. Give credit where credit is due.

[Nanamix]

I can tell you exactly what you did wrong, or rather, what you failed to do. As a pt leader it is your *job* to make sure everyone knows what they are doing before you even leave. As an example, I will use my 1st Ifrit run. I was PLed as well, but lets face it a DD isn't exactly complicated, plus i partied from 40-50 enough to know how to make my skills work.

PT leader: Anyone new to Ifrit?

Everyone else: ......

Me: I am

*pt leader explains where to stand, who to follow, what to look out for, etc etc.*

You should at least ask beforehand if anyone needs clarification on the fight, and what needs to be done in it. That is why you're a pt leader. Success is more or less your responsibility, you build the team, you make sure everyone knows their role, and then you set out. You can't heal stupidity, nor predict stupidity, but you *can* at least try to cover your bases before fighting. Now of course if an idiot doesn't speak up, nothing you can do.

Don't assume because someone is lvl 50 that they know what they are doing. Its quite easy to lvl 1-50 on any job and not use the majority of your skills. That WHM could have partied the whole time and never used Esuna, its entirely possible. PLing isn't the problem, the problem is that lvling does not require difficult and strategic group content. Grinding doesn't make you a good player. Your logic is just incorrect.

The issue at hand, to repeat myself, is that grinding does not require skill. It doesn't matter how ppl choose to lvl, they will not develop skill by mindlessly lvling. Skill is only developed through focused practice. Grinding = mindless. PLing = mindless. The method is irrelevant. Next time ask if anyone is new and go over the general strategy before leaving.

Frankly, no. That's where another problem collides. People needs to stop worrying about their E-Peen in general. Because the last time I did that, people were like "Oh, I know what to do, I've done Ifrit before" (A WHM, excuse you), and the idiot stood with the THM all the way in the back.



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