PL Woes

[Peptaru]

Stuff.

The only objection I have to your post is telling me what I NEED to do. I know the changes you pointed out, but I appreciate the condescending tone like I wouldn't know everything you said. They need to not call them RPG if they're not what RPGs are. F/TPF would be fine (first/third person fighter) because it isn't RPG. Games that claim to be RPGs need to remain RPGs.

We see how well its working, too, don't we. Every day the forums are filled with bitching and whining about having nothing to do. I know, I know.... 2.0 will solve every problem ever! It won't. PL makes an already way-to-fast game even faster.

[Xoo]

...and as fans of the RPG genre, we're supposed to sit back and accept this? That we get swindled out of $50 for what used to amount to days upon days, if not weeks, of entertainment? Whoa, just what are you advocating here, Lux?

[Xoo]

Its called reality. I know hardcore gamers are slightly disconnected with it, but the real world operates on one thing alone: money. And for an RPG, money comes from pleasing as many ppl as possible to generate as many sales as possible. The master of this was WoW, there's a reason it had so many subscribers. Even ppl who thought RPG's were for losers were playing WoW. My college football team? All WoW players. Almost everyone in my dorm played WoW. Even girls who never played videogames played WoW. WoW took all of those traditional RPG niche elements and said "fuck em".

Video games are an industry, which means they are a business. Once one business sets a new sales standard, the old standard is unacceptable to potential investors. Investors make or break your company, without investors you are going nowhere, and you are going bankrupt. This is how capitalism works. Now that new standards have been set, that becomes the goal. You need to explain to your investors how your product can duplicate or surpass the success of a WoW. If you fail you lose your job quite possibly. You lose your job you lose your livelihood.

The reality check is that its not about gamers its about consumers. Gamers *were* the only consumers so it just seemed like it was all about them. Thats not the case anymore. Some smart guy realized you can sell video games to anyone, not just nerds and niche fanboys. Thats why we have Wii, XBOX Kinect, stupid exercise games, watered down RPGs, etc etc. Why? Cuz that makes money. You don't make money, you are out of a job. So what am I advocating? I'm advocating everyone get connected to the real world, outside of RPG land, and recognize that every industry is run by sales. And sales are achieved by reaching as many ppl as possible. News Flash: RPG fans are in the minority.


EDIT: Honestly Peptaru that wasn't even my intention. Sorry it came across that way.

Oh, you mean we lost video games to the jocks, eh? Some corporate bastards learned that if they made stupid games for stupid people, they'd play them too! Still don't understand why I have to accept this 'reality'.

[Lux_Rayna]

Oh, you mean we lost video games to the jocks, eh? Some corporate bastards learned that if they made stupid games for stupid people, they'd play them too! Still don't understand why I have to accept this 'reality'.

Because you can't do anything about it lol. No matter how much you gripe, complain, protest, they will always cater to the largest demographic because thats what their job depends on. You don't have any choice but to accept it. We lost out, and until we become the majority we can't make games how we like them. WoW, Wii, those sorts of inventions/innovations changed *everything*.

[Xoo]

Because you can't do anything about it lol. No matter how much you gripe, complain, protest, they will always cater to the largest demographic because thats what their job depends on. You don't have any choice but to accept it. We lost out, and until we become the majority we can't make games how we like them. WoW, Wii, those sorts of inventions/innovations changed *everything*.

Yes there is. It's called a boycott. But that won't happen - people don't fight for anything any more. They just roll over and say, "Oh, there's nothing we can do..."

Sad deal.

[Lux_Rayna]

Yes there is. It's called a boycott. But that won't happen - people don't fight for anything any more. They just roll over and say, "Oh, there's nothing we can do..."

Sad deal.

If you're in the minority whats a boycott going to do? So what, 100 hardcore rpg enthusiasts refuse to buy SE products. Meanwhile 2 million idiots go out and buy the latest new fad. SE makes lots of money, and could care less about your boycott. This is what I mean by reality. How in the world is a small boycott going to affect their profits enough for them to bother with your demands? It won't, unless you were their only customer lol. But if they successfully make a game that appeals to the masses (which entails every feature you don't like), then a boycott by disgruntled RPG enthusiasts won't mean a damn thing to anyone.

There is nothing you can do. Its just the truth. Look at what happened with the occupy wall street protest. That reached many states, many countries, and still didn't accomplish much. So what if 5% of my subscribers throw a fit and say they wotn play anymore? Who cares? 95% of them are paying the bills, and new guys will just replace the old ones anyway. Thats the logic~

Its why I always laugh when ppl create quit threads, and threaten SE that they'll leave the game, because SE doesn't care. For every disgruntled player that leaves, an idiot will take his place. Ppl are under the impression that they matter, when in reality they are a decimal point in the grand scheme of things.

[Gukswar]

he's point is--- IF THERE IS NO POWER LEVEL-
At least a noob will be better then a noob Rank level 1 at level 50

Power level creates: Rank 1 noob at 50

No power level creates: Rank 50 noob at 50!

[yialee]

Ok from the sound of this i say this about power level....
1. Everyone start rank 50 everything day one since alot ppl dont even care about leveling up so why even put exp level in it.
2. Hope that RMT just power like 100 level 50 account to max and farm the ???? out of nm and drop market price. Not to think alot ppl aready shouting to pay ppl (maybe rmt who took the bait) to power level them.
3. Stop alot ppl who complain about content b/c they wont be so boring max 50 everyone from power level and got nothing esl to do.


i dont really care about power level but power leveling this way is horriable idea. Atleast ffxi you are outside the party healing your party while they kill mob instead just afk in party and wake up the next day rank.

[Zaaku]

This is what boggles my head meats. SE went against the grain with FFXI. It never competed with WoW. Instead it funneled a niche into its ranks and thus avoid the inevitable bloody gruesome fate that awaits any MMO that tries to tackle WoW. The game was a finical success and made steady profits over 7 years.

Why. Why after seeing company after company after company after company spend years and millions of doll hairs on their own flavor of the month MMO WoW clone shit their pants, drop to the floor, and suffocate in their own drool would they emulate their parameters?

Say what you want about how casual gameplay entices more players.

FFXI 200-300k subs
FFXIV 10-15k subs

Even if they only migrated over half of the FFXI players this game would have made 15-20x times more money in this first year alone. Do they truly think they can pull out a home run with 2.0 and somehow jump past half a mil subs with the same easy gratifyingless bullshit that everyone else offers in spades?

~~~DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW FAST YOU WERE SCROLLING?~~~

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[Lux_Rayna]

This is what boggles my head meats. SE went against the grain with FFXI. It never competed with WoW. Instead it funneled a niche into its ranks and thus avoid the inevitable bloody gruesome fate that awaits any MMO that tries to tackle WoW. The game was a finical success and made steady profits over 7 years.

Why. Why after seeing company after company after company after company spend years and millions of doll hairs on their own flavor of the month MMO WoW clone shit their pants, drop to the floor, and suffocate in their own drool would they emulate their parameters?

The answer is in your post... (WARNING: This will be long, so only read if you are genuinely interested in the answer)

FFXI 200-300k subs

This is no longer good enough. Investors will *not* bother with a number that small when they could just go over to blizzard and dump their money there. FF is not the only contender on the scene, there are tons of game being developed to rival WoW. The only reason investors are considering them is because investors are naturally greedy creatures and would rather catch something at the bottom, instead of the top. They love to ride underdogs that turn into real giants. Thats exactly what WoW did, and all of those investors are happy ass campers.

But it was also timing. When FFXI came out in Japan, WoW was just a rumor. When FFXI reached North America, WoW hadn't even started beta testing (well maybe alpha but idk). Both games came out in NA in 2004 (FFXI in March, WoW in November). In other words, a game like FFXI was possible because it was a time when mmorpgs were still a niche thing. Yes Everquest was really popular at the time, but only amongst mmorpg enthusiasts, which was a small fraction of the population. It would make perfect sense to an investor that games like FFXI, which commanded a loyal fanbase of its own through its franchise, could grab a fat share of the mmorpg subscriber population. The same goes for WoW, which was in the same boat, since it had loyalists from its Warcraft franchise. In other words, the market was ripe for opportunity, the franchise label made risk-taking (ie going against the status quo) perfectly acceptable for investors; there had not been major widespread success before that point. At worst, only the loyalists will play those games which would still give a reliable increase in revenue.

But now it is different! We know how the battle turned out; WoW unquestionably won. Both WoW and FFXI went against the grain, but they targetted two different demographics. FFXI appealed to the same rpg enthusiasts/nerds that games like everquest, asheron's call, nwn, had appealed to. What it offered that was different was a combat system based on its console rpg games. Additionally it added the whole job/subjob thing, as well as the ability to be played on a console as well as a pc. This made the interface/menus less than desirable to most ppl, and the combat pacing was much different than the standard. All in all, it managed to capture a fat chunk of the mmorpg population as investors had predicted.

WoW, on the other hand, went the opposite direction. It aimed a product not at rpg enthusiasts, but at the general school-age public. It was pretty genius the way they did it, from the cartoony graphics, to the simple and linear quest progression storyline. The result was millions of subscribers. Rather than directly compete with the other MMO's, they tapped into a larger market where there was no competition: the casual crowd. What had made rpg's so inaccessible to people before got erased, and WoW created a game that was as accessible as Super Mario was on the super nintendo. In a way you could say its the Super Mario of MMORPGs.

The result is that WoW set the standard for all future endeavors. Anyone who hopes to make their investors happy has to compete with WoW. You have to offer a game that can legitimately capture WoW subscribers. That means RPGs are now having to battle it out over casuals, and not rpg enthusiasts. Casuals are the larger market, generally have the most money, and more easily sustain a company's cash flow. If a few hundred quit its no biggie, as a few hundred more will replace them. In the past, if a few hundred rpg die-hards quit, there was no guarantee they'd quickly be replaced. Long story short, there would be no FFXIV unless SE targetted that larger market. If they refused, their investors would jump ship and SE would lose a LOT of money.