Healer Suggestions Megathread

[ty_taurus]

Unless heavily reimagined (to the point it no longer fits the original name, form, or function), I would really dislike that, tbh.

Without that, the Sphere Grid is basically just the Additional Attributes system from ARR/HW, but with choice almost only insofar as the order you unlock them, rather than the actual final result on one's character.

Actually the basis is more around Relic Weapon stat allocation. In terms of function, it probably would be quite different, but the premise I was going with is more based on the visual elements of using spheres and traveling along a path.

In terms of stat allocation, a part of this was finding a way for skill/spell speed to be something you build into a job rather than plaguing gear that no one but black mage really wants, and that way different jobs could perhaps reach different attack speed thresholds that actually don't desynch your rotations, but beyond that, other stats you could build into could be choices exclusively between utility stats. Things like MP regeneration for healers, increasing HP received when you're healed, increasing magic resistance, sprint cooldown reduction, etc. And maybe you could even make a selection of optional traits that fit into FFXIV's mold without difficulty. Something like a trait that increases your Piety by 30% of your Spell Speed or increases the effect that Determination has on healing actions by 50%.

[Shurrikhan]

Actually the basis is more around Relic Weapon stat allocation. In terms of function, it probably would be quite different, but the premise I was going with is more based on the visual elements of using spheres and traveling along a path.

I guess I just have to wonder what that offers over just a granular / non-nodal approach? The latter allows you to set exact amounts, and even to perhaps set threshold priorities.*

* By these, I'm referring to where stats will be allocated towards a particular function if they can meet it; otherwise, they move on to the next. For a simple example, with the breadth of competitive stats we see today (though you could obviously go far further if you care to reimagine XIV's stats):

1. 2.5% Haste
2. 20% Critical Hit
3. 5% Haste
4. Critical Hit

:: The last has no end-point; all leftover stats are simply dumped into it.

And, of course, there too you could simply break stats down categorically -- say, between Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary stats, which would allow you to set your broad, fine, and utility adjustments against only each other.

[TheDustyOne]

(though you could obviously go far further if you care to reimagine XIV's stats)

Slight tangent from me; but one thing I disliked was when ShB made Piety into an MP regen upgrade rather than increasing the MP cap itself. If I had my way, every job would be using MP in their rotation in some form, even if it's just another way of hiding a cooldown, and then having Piety be an all-classes stat that increases the cap, rather than just the regen (it would still be a 2% regen, so more MP per tick regardless). I'm sure people here could imagine a DRK stacking Piety for more Edge/Flood spam, or a BLM squeezing just one more Fire IV if they get 1000 more MP, or removing NIN mudra cooldowns and having it tied to MP instead. Like with speed currently, it would be another interesting way to alter ones rotation with stat choices. It'd be an absolute pig to balance, but dammit it sounds fun, and it would make MP regen buffs of the past far more relevant and can bring back more support variety.

[Shurrikhan]

Slight tangent from me; but one thing I disliked was when ShB made Piety into an MP regen upgrade rather than increasing the MP cap itself. If I had my way, every job would be using MP in their rotation in some form.

Same, though mostly just if it had additional elements leverageable for gameplay.

I'm not a fan of a starvation mechanic existing just to support a stat that wouldn't otherwise need at all to exist (and no meaningful gameplay decisions around it). Short of the last time it was optimal to cast a Cure I / Physick, MP has only ever been a bloated anti-gameplay mechanic with a side of rez-charges, while TP has only devalued Skill Speed outside of certain less aTP/gcd thresholds (at which point, it was just a slightly lesser punishment).

even if it's just another way of hiding a cooldown

That's the thing I don't want it to be, to be fair. MP is effectively just 3.33 Edge/TBN charges on DRK, for instance, with each charge taking 45 seconds to recharge naturally and each generator (be it Syphon Strike, Stalwart Soul, Carve and Spit, or Delirium-Bloodspiller/Quietus) offering 9 seconds' of CDR. That's... literally all it is.

That's not awful, but neither does that feel like an actual mechanic of any sort. I'll work on a mock-up that might make clearer the extent I'd want for MP, but the short of it is that I'd like it to feel less like a just starvation (or, "Am able to use my abilities: Y/N") mechanic and to route more nuanced decisions through it or to visualize/demark broader successes.

a BLM squeezing just one more Fire IV if they get 1000 more MP

I think that's precisely why ARR/HW BLM's MP seemed the most interesting period to me, yep.

removing NIN mudra cooldowns and having it tied to MP instead

I could get behind something like that.

Like with speed currently, it would be another interesting way to alter ones rotation with stat choices. It'd be an absolute pig to balance, but dammit it sounds fun

Lol, yup.

[TheDustyOne]

That's the thing I don't want it to be, to be fair. MP is effectively just 3.33 Edge/TBN charges on DRK, for instance, with each charge taking 45 seconds to recharge naturally and each generator (be it Syphon Strike, Stalwart Soul, Carve and Spit, or Delirium-Bloodspiller/Quietus) offering 9 seconds' of CDR. That's... literally all it is.

That's not awful, but neither does that feel like an actual mechanic of any sort. I'll work on a mock-up that might make clearer the extent I'd want for MP, but the short of it is that I'd like it to feel less like a just starvation (or, "Am able to use my abilities: Y/N") mechanic and to route more nuanced decisions through it or to visualize/demark broader successes.

I'm similar, I'd ideally rather have MP be a bit more interesting as well, but you could also technically argue that a lot of builder/spender gauges like Beast Gauge are like that too, slap a 15s cooldown and 2 charges on Fell Cleave, have infuriate give a charge, make Inner Release not care about cooldown, and, outside the opener, it'd play somewhat similarly (I'm just ignoring that the cooldown would still tick while Inner Releasing, don't mind me ). In that sense, a lot of the jobs now that have the generic 0-100 gauges like NIN, SAM, WAR, could move all of that to MP instead (also ignoring that we start fights with full MP, don't mind me ) and not a lot would change with regards to the feel of gameplay while making MP a bit more relevant to kits. So long as their respective "Gain X gauge" changes to "Restores Y MP" it would kinda work for them. Jobs that make use of both a gauge and MP would still need both of course.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm similar, I'd ideally rather have MP be a bit more interesting as well, but you could also technically argue that a lot of builder/spender gauges like Beast Gauge are like that too, slap a 15s cooldown and 2 charges on Fell Cleave, have infuriate give a charge...

Right. The difference is just what the resting %resource is. MP enters combat full. All other gauges enter at 0. (As you mention just a bit later.) Spender-rebuilder vs. Builder-spender.

The problem with migrating those systems to MP is that it's the equivalent of replacing Sentinel, Nebula, Shadowskin, and Vengeance with Fortificatis Genericis or whatever named Role Action. It takes things that previously at least had a separate skin for that tiny bit of distinct flavor and merges them into one for no other reason that that one can.

Else, the moment you actually do something with MP to give some reason for moving those melee onto an MP system instead but leave it as just a gauge-equivalent (no varied max MP)... now you have the balancing concern of varied potency-value per %MP. Do you Mana-shift the SAM? The NIN? On one hand, that's kinda cool. On the other... there's very likely to be just one, not particularly even situational answer, because those gauges were never meant to cross over.

/just food for thought

[TheDustyOne]

Right. The difference is just what the resting %resource is. MP enters combat full. All other gauges enter at 0. (As you mention just a bit later.) Spender-rebuilder vs. Builder-spender.

The problem with migrating those systems to MP is that it's the equivalent of replacing Sentinel, Nebula, Shadowskin, and Vengeance with Fortificatis Genericis or whatever named Role Action. It takes things that previously at least had a separate skin for that tiny bit of distinct flavor and merges them into one for no other reason that that one can.

Else, the moment you actually do something with MP to give some reason for moving those melee onto an MP system instead but leave it as just a gauge-equivalent (no varied max MP)... now you have the balancing concern of varied potency-value per %MP. Do you Mana-shift the SAM? The NIN? On one hand, that's kinda cool. On the other... there's very likely to be just one, not particularly even situational answer, because those gauges were never meant to cross over.

/just food for thought

Don't worry, I'm not advocating to change it for the sake of changing it, those job gauges in particular I think it's better to start at 0 and work up, I'm mostly just experimenting with the idea. It's a personal gripe of mine that I don't really like having pointless gauges/resources that are just... there, only to then have my UI concoct something that does the same thing or similar. Why have something like Beast Gauge when MP can do the same job? In return we could have another gauge to track whatever mechanics we have alongside our MP (probably not with Square, but you can get what I mean).

Another thing is that just because we have jobs that share a homogenous resource, doesn't necessarily mean they end up using that resource the same way, or generate it the same way, there are ways you can have different gameplay flavour between the jobs. Some can build MP quickly and spend it quickly, or build slow and spend slow, or build slow and spend quickly, or build quickly and spend slowly, you'd be surprised how a small thing like that can make a job feel. Some will want to hold on to their MP for a buff they have coming up, or because they may need TBN, some may want to hold for emergency situations like rezes, some will slowly drain away their MP to empower their attacks and it has to be actively kept up (old Darkside), it all comes back to the context of the rest of their kits in the end.

There's also the benefit of a homogenous resource like MP being very easy to recognize in the party list, and so your party can immediately understand what resources you have available to you, so they could throw that Mana Shift to you if you're low, or give a Balance card if you're nearly full, or Ewer if you're low. It's immediately recognizable as a resource across the game that every job needs. This can be (mostly) fixed by adding the job resources to the party list, but I feel like MP can be a better fit if we were to bring back Refresh or Mana Shift, couple that with Piety as all classes and you have more ways to go about bringing some build variety. Ironically, I feel like that would give more variety in how people can play the jobs.

I would of course prefer to find other ways to incorporate MP mechanics into jobs than just changing the 0-100 gauges, I'd rather keep Ninki on NIN as-is and have the mudras cost MP if I was to have NIN use MP.

[AmiableApkallu]

when ShB made Piety into an MP regen upgrade rather than increasing the MP cap itself

OMG, is that why some skills say "Restores X% of MP"? I've never understood why FFXIV phrased things like that until now, since I started in post-ShB.

[Post]

OMG, is that why some skills say "Restores X% of MP"? I've never understood why FFXIV phrased things like that until now, since I started in post-ShB.

Yes, and perhaps most confusingly, actions like Lucid Dreaming have always existed and simultaneously described it in terms of potency when they were always really % as well (Lucid is 55 MP refresh potency over 21 seconds... my best guess is that this is 5.5% or 550MP per 3 seconds on top of the flat 2% you get per 3 sec. Dunno, never paid that close attention)

[Shurrikhan]

Yes, and perhaps most confusingly, actions like Lucid Dreaming have always existed and simultaneously described it in terms of potency when they were always really % as well (Lucid is 55 MP refresh potency over 21 seconds... my best guess is that this is 5.5% or 550MP per 3 seconds on top of the flat 2% you get per 3 sec. Dunno, never paid that close attention)

It is, yes. Refresh is 0.1% MP per potency now. (It used to be a flat amount per level, iirc.)