Healer Suggestions Megathread

[GrimGale]

I've said it before, but the different jobs themselves effectively are your skill trees seeing as you can swap between them freely as long as you level them.

I strongly disagree with this- Jobs should be more than just mechanics. They are lore, flavour, aesthetics. Specially in a game where everything boils down to "I press this and enemy HP bar go down" and sometimes "I press this and I move there"

And while the game seems to want me to consider SCH and SGE two flavours of Shield healer, I refuse to believe I should treat them as two different flavours of the same class.

Talent trees are meant to allow player expression within a class. To tilt the general identity of a job that appeals to you to a gameplay that you prefer, within its idenity.

[Shurrikhan]

I strongly disagree with this- Jobs are more than just mechanics. They are lore, flavour, aesthetics.

So is the difference between, say, Fire, Frost, and Arcane on a Mage. Different schools of magic, often with different/unique legendary items, that play quite differently, with unique advantages and a completely different flavor each... on the same class.

All but 1 slot's worth of gear is shared between each healer. They are, for all intents and purposes, specializations of the same class.

Now, I'd be all for removing template-based design and Role Actions, but... until then... if anything, each healer job is closer to each other in gameplay than most specializations/masteries of the same class would be in another MMO.

What I'd actually love to see for 7.0 and for progression beyond level 100 would be to introduce a reimagined take on FFX's Sphere Grid.

Unless heavily reimagined (to the point it no longer fits the original name, form, or function), I would really dislike that, tbh.

Without that, the Sphere Grid is basically just the Additional Attributes system from ARR/HW, but with choice almost only insofar as the order you unlock them, rather than the actual final result on one's character.

_______________________


To be fair, I honestly would be fine without customization if we could just have more distinct jobs. If we were to have it, though, I don't want it to feel like a tacked-on menu.

I'd much rather any progressible customization system simply be about establishing our character as a sum of its experiences and learnings: Level the character, with classes being horizontal progression that source available actions and traits.

For instance, let's classes give you actions and traits related to Weapon (related to weapon characteristics: Slashing/Blunt/Piercing, Invoking/Evoking), Tactic (related slightly to finer degrees of role), and Art (that of a Ronin being still fairly different from that of a Gladiator). Jobs would give only an Essence, which you could learn to leverage in quite a few different ways.

Equip the soulstone of a Dragoon, and the first thing you'll get out of it is the ability to expend MP to affect gravity, similar to a dragon. In the open world, you're bounding up cliff-faces while everyone else is taking switchbacks up, and you're reducing the weight of your flying mount to let its stamina last almost endlessly while all but Conjurers and maybe Bards are otherwise having to take occasional breaks. Add some invocation to that, and you've got yourself BotD and DS, complete with additional means of MP expenditure and regeneration as per a dragon. Add some Evocation, and you've got Geirskogul. Between the two: LotD, Nostrond, and Stardiver, etc.

But the fundamental portion, is just that: a draconic aura, offering what makes a dragon a dragon, but now to a humanoid. From there, build it up as you will. Hell, divert some AP from the norm and add some Arcanistry or Thaumaturgy to it, if you like, for to concentrate and store draconic energies (including, for party members to use, too) or to actually breathe fire, if you prefer.

Or heck, slap Soulfont (WHM Essence) atop your Ronin, for that matter. It won't be competitive for full party content, but it'd be annoying as all hell in WPvP and oddly effective and efficient in light party content of middling difficulty.

And integrate some actual class- and job-aligned horizontal progression. Let Bards go find more stories and songs, Dragoons hunt or grow close with new and different dragon flights. Let Monks cultivate through trial and meditation, either or both. Let Machinists actually customize some of their tech to be summoned in. Make gear and consumables more interesting (heck, you'd need that just to make Machinist make sense, even).

In short, if we're to have customization, it should be in a way that makes what jobs offer feel organic and intuitive, explorable and exploitable (not by some nefarious meaning of the word), and should let us feel like... ourselves, rather than just Machinist#46784.

[ty_taurus]

Unless heavily reimagined (to the point it no longer fits the original name, form, or function), I would really dislike that, tbh.

Without that, the Sphere Grid is basically just the Additional Attributes system from ARR/HW, but with choice almost only insofar as the order you unlock them, rather than the actual final result on one's character.

Actually the basis is more around Relic Weapon stat allocation. In terms of function, it probably would be quite different, but the premise I was going with is more based on the visual elements of using spheres and traveling along a path.

In terms of stat allocation, a part of this was finding a way for skill/spell speed to be something you build into a job rather than plaguing gear that no one but black mage really wants, and that way different jobs could perhaps reach different attack speed thresholds that actually don't desynch your rotations, but beyond that, other stats you could build into could be choices exclusively between utility stats. Things like MP regeneration for healers, increasing HP received when you're healed, increasing magic resistance, sprint cooldown reduction, etc. And maybe you could even make a selection of optional traits that fit into FFXIV's mold without difficulty. Something like a trait that increases your Piety by 30% of your Spell Speed or increases the effect that Determination has on healing actions by 50%.

[Shurrikhan]

Actually the basis is more around Relic Weapon stat allocation. In terms of function, it probably would be quite different, but the premise I was going with is more based on the visual elements of using spheres and traveling along a path.

I guess I just have to wonder what that offers over just a granular / non-nodal approach? The latter allows you to set exact amounts, and even to perhaps set threshold priorities.*

* By these, I'm referring to where stats will be allocated towards a particular function if they can meet it; otherwise, they move on to the next. For a simple example, with the breadth of competitive stats we see today (though you could obviously go far further if you care to reimagine XIV's stats):

1. 2.5% Haste
2. 20% Critical Hit
3. 5% Haste
4. Critical Hit

:: The last has no end-point; all leftover stats are simply dumped into it.

And, of course, there too you could simply break stats down categorically -- say, between Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary stats, which would allow you to set your broad, fine, and utility adjustments against only each other.

[TheDustyOne]

(though you could obviously go far further if you care to reimagine XIV's stats)

Slight tangent from me; but one thing I disliked was when ShB made Piety into an MP regen upgrade rather than increasing the MP cap itself. If I had my way, every job would be using MP in their rotation in some form, even if it's just another way of hiding a cooldown, and then having Piety be an all-classes stat that increases the cap, rather than just the regen (it would still be a 2% regen, so more MP per tick regardless). I'm sure people here could imagine a DRK stacking Piety for more Edge/Flood spam, or a BLM squeezing just one more Fire IV if they get 1000 more MP, or removing NIN mudra cooldowns and having it tied to MP instead. Like with speed currently, it would be another interesting way to alter ones rotation with stat choices. It'd be an absolute pig to balance, but dammit it sounds fun, and it would make MP regen buffs of the past far more relevant and can bring back more support variety.

[Shurrikhan]

Slight tangent from me; but one thing I disliked was when ShB made Piety into an MP regen upgrade rather than increasing the MP cap itself. If I had my way, every job would be using MP in their rotation in some form.

Same, though mostly just if it had additional elements leverageable for gameplay.

I'm not a fan of a starvation mechanic existing just to support a stat that wouldn't otherwise need at all to exist (and no meaningful gameplay decisions around it). Short of the last time it was optimal to cast a Cure I / Physick, MP has only ever been a bloated anti-gameplay mechanic with a side of rez-charges, while TP has only devalued Skill Speed outside of certain less aTP/gcd thresholds (at which point, it was just a slightly lesser punishment).

even if it's just another way of hiding a cooldown

That's the thing I don't want it to be, to be fair. MP is effectively just 3.33 Edge/TBN charges on DRK, for instance, with each charge taking 45 seconds to recharge naturally and each generator (be it Syphon Strike, Stalwart Soul, Carve and Spit, or Delirium-Bloodspiller/Quietus) offering 9 seconds' of CDR. That's... literally all it is.

That's not awful, but neither does that feel like an actual mechanic of any sort. I'll work on a mock-up that might make clearer the extent I'd want for MP, but the short of it is that I'd like it to feel less like a just starvation (or, "Am able to use my abilities: Y/N") mechanic and to route more nuanced decisions through it or to visualize/demark broader successes.

a BLM squeezing just one more Fire IV if they get 1000 more MP

I think that's precisely why ARR/HW BLM's MP seemed the most interesting period to me, yep.

removing NIN mudra cooldowns and having it tied to MP instead

I could get behind something like that.

Like with speed currently, it would be another interesting way to alter ones rotation with stat choices. It'd be an absolute pig to balance, but dammit it sounds fun

Lol, yup.

[TheDustyOne]

That's the thing I don't want it to be, to be fair. MP is effectively just 3.33 Edge/TBN charges on DRK, for instance, with each charge taking 45 seconds to recharge naturally and each generator (be it Syphon Strike, Stalwart Soul, Carve and Spit, or Delirium-Bloodspiller/Quietus) offering 9 seconds' of CDR. That's... literally all it is.

That's not awful, but neither does that feel like an actual mechanic of any sort. I'll work on a mock-up that might make clearer the extent I'd want for MP, but the short of it is that I'd like it to feel less like a just starvation (or, "Am able to use my abilities: Y/N") mechanic and to route more nuanced decisions through it or to visualize/demark broader successes.

I'm similar, I'd ideally rather have MP be a bit more interesting as well, but you could also technically argue that a lot of builder/spender gauges like Beast Gauge are like that too, slap a 15s cooldown and 2 charges on Fell Cleave, have infuriate give a charge, make Inner Release not care about cooldown, and, outside the opener, it'd play somewhat similarly (I'm just ignoring that the cooldown would still tick while Inner Releasing, don't mind me ). In that sense, a lot of the jobs now that have the generic 0-100 gauges like NIN, SAM, WAR, could move all of that to MP instead (also ignoring that we start fights with full MP, don't mind me ) and not a lot would change with regards to the feel of gameplay while making MP a bit more relevant to kits. So long as their respective "Gain X gauge" changes to "Restores Y MP" it would kinda work for them. Jobs that make use of both a gauge and MP would still need both of course.

[AmiableApkallu]

when ShB made Piety into an MP regen upgrade rather than increasing the MP cap itself

OMG, is that why some skills say "Restores X% of MP"? I've never understood why FFXIV phrased things like that until now, since I started in post-ShB.

[Post]

OMG, is that why some skills say "Restores X% of MP"? I've never understood why FFXIV phrased things like that until now, since I started in post-ShB.

Yes, and perhaps most confusingly, actions like Lucid Dreaming have always existed and simultaneously described it in terms of potency when they were always really % as well (Lucid is 55 MP refresh potency over 21 seconds... my best guess is that this is 5.5% or 550MP per 3 seconds on top of the flat 2% you get per 3 sec. Dunno, never paid that close attention)