Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Renathras]

I wonder why anyone takes you seriously and is responding to you seriously

How can someone say this unironically lmao

5.X, you potato, not 6.X.

You know, when SMN had a 2 min cyclic rotation with various oGCDs and you had to ensure you had 4 Ruin IVs for Bahamut and spam other stuff like Addle in there because it counted as an "attack" and would trigger another Wyrmwave? When you had to strategically delay DWT/FBT by ~5 sec to keep things aligned and you played around Tri-Disaster refreshing your buffs AND DWT/FBT refreshing IT so you only had to hardcast Bio/Miasma once per 2 minutes? Where you had both Bane and Fester, where you had 8 total Egi-Assaults in a 2 minute time frame and used those to generate Ruin IVs, and you avoided overcapping THOSE while ensuring you had 4 of them for Bahamut, which was a separate button from DWT, and where you used the other Ruin IVs and Egi-Assaults in your cycle for movement uptime?

SMN was considered comparable or even harder than BLM at the time, which is why it doing about as much damage as BLM while having a Raise WASN'T seen as a huge problem since most people understood that the high difficulty meant that SMNs weren't often doing that full damage and IF THEY WERE, they were good enough they deserved it.

They made it slightly easier at some point (normalizing the Wyrmwaves), but I think that was in one of the patches, don't remember which. They also reduced SMN DoT potencies because they were surpassing BLM by a decent amount at one point (5.3, I'm going to say...)

Just because you don't actually know the game's history or mechanics doesn't mean we're all as ignorant.

Go ahead, question my "game-know-how" again as you say something absurd again.

If you're going to attack people, don't attack people for YOU being wrong.

(Personally, I found SMN easier, but they were considered pretty comparable and more difficult to wrap one's head around to a lot of people at the time.)

...

See above.

EDIT:

I uhh... didn't?

Maybe I misunderstood this exchange?

I do think it would be neat to see different variations on Healers, like SGE being a Disc Priest was honestly what I was thinking when they announced it. The problem is FFXIV's fight/encounter design and balance don't allow for it well.

...that's what I've been saying this whole entire time? I thought we had a mutual understanding that this was the point you were arguing against.

You quoted me saying I thought it would be neat to see different variations on Healers (Jobs) and I mentioned SGE being more "heals by doing damage" focused (Disc Priest) as an example, and you responded with "...that's what I've been saying this whole entire time".

I'm sorry for the confusion, but...that made me think you were saying that you agreed with the idea of changing some of the Healer Jobs up like that. If that isn't what you meant, apologies for the confusion, but maybe you can understand how that led to said confusion.

Just so there's no confusion.

I do not think Square Enix's currently philosophy for healer design is working.

I also agree it's not working, though I think the solution is to employ moderate, targeted, changes that get at the various problems I outlined in my last post...as...opposed to a whole overhaul.

(...though perhaps this depends on what one defines as an "overhaul", but from your replies to my posts so far, it seems what I've called for you don't define as an overhaul, so...working with that assumption/definition for now.)

No amount of "add more DPS buttons" would make healers fun, because adding more DPS buttons would just make DPSing fun. What the game needs is to break the whole foundation of Healers, implement weaker heals in a rotation that would open up to stronger heals, just like my example for Disc Priest.

For ONE Job, sure. For all Jobs, no.

One of the problems I forgot (and will now add) to my list above:

All the Healers are the same.

Our healing kits are a bit distinct, but largely do the same thing just in somewhat different ways, but our DPS kits are darn near IDENTICAL. What this means is that if someone doesn't like that...they have no alternative. It's that or go play DPS/Tank. A fantastic relief valve there would be if some of them played more differently. WHM playing just like it does today wouldn't be a problem if SCH had its SB damage kit for those who want that level of engagement.

It's why I promote the "4 Healers Model" so much. Having one Healer like now is fine. Having all four? Not so much. Having one Healer like SB SCH is fine. Or one like SB AST. Or a Disc Priest SGE.
...but not all of them. Why even HAVE 4 if they're all going to be the same?

Indeed, even RIGHT NOW, this is one reason people cite for liking SCH (Energy Drain optimization) and AST (Arcanum powerweaving burst and "keeps me busy" feeling), and why people who DON'T like any form of complexity constantly pick WHM, despite the others seemingly being of a similar difficulty on paper. Even with Healers being as overlapped as they are now, those distinctions make some stand out for people. Better to make them more distinct than just shift them all to some new spot where they're still dropped all on top of each other's toes.

Again, there's no issue with WHM being like it is right now. The issue's when all 4 Healer Jobs are.

We see this with Tank complaints, too, where Tanks are often complaining how their Jobs are too similar, especially WAR and DRK. It's not a problem that 1 Job is a certain way, it's a problem when every Job in that Role is that same way.

Also I know I wasn't being asked but here you go buddy.

"This alignment will make it easier to coordinate timings for burst damage in high-end duties, as well as assist with trying a new Job with a similar rotation cycle."

Where does it say "casual players" in there?