Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[FireMage]

I'm stating human nature, especially when it comes to gamers who always gravitate to the stronger options. MCH doing 1% less damage than the support jobs that bring raid buffs will 100% lead to MCH being blacklisted. There would be no logical reason to have a MCH in a party when the dnc and brd would not only do more damage, but give raid buffs. We've literally seen this in the past where in ARR MNK was basically told to go fly a kite as every party did double bard and a drg for the brd buffs and for the piercing debuff with drg and the flex was pretty much always blm.

Psst, those raid buffs you keep mentioning IS PART OF DNC AND BRD DAMAGE

[Ransu]

Psst, those raid buffs you keep mentioning IS PART OF DNC AND BRD DAMAGE

Ah...so you only look at rdps and don't know how to read it.

[FireMage]

Ah...so you only look at rdps and don't know how to read it.

rDPS is the correct metric to use, not my fault you have no clue what's being discussed. Be better educated in the future?

[Leiron]

Absolutely not. Proper balance would be ~5% from top to bottom of the ladder. What we have currently btw is ~11%. Ease of play absolutely matters, otherwise you are punishing harder Jobs

This was stated way back at page 6, but I would look to point out that a percentile discrepancy is not the end all, be all.
The highest I peeked at briefly was about 12687.
A 11% difference is about 1395 damage leaving 11,291 rounding down.
That isn't something to be concerned about, as there is no encounter currently where an 11% difference is going to result in a wipe due to lack of DPS.
If it does occur, it is usually due to errors in rotation, poor balance in boss HP (which SE is infamous for), or other factors.
Its exceedingly rare where such a difference will make any difference in end game content at the minimum ilvl.
So don't get so heated about it. It isn't worth it.
Mind you this is with aDPS, as you utilize rDPS and nDPS the numerical difference decreases.

Seriously, the percentile usage can be pretty deceptive because its the same as someone bringing up likelihood of cancer.

If smoking increases the likelihood of lung cancer by 50%, but the actual rate is .000000001%, it may be statically significant but it is meaningfully significant.

tl;dr It is a game, not your life, chill with the flaming.

DNC and BRD are also harder than MCH. Being lower satisfies proper balance and being close in potential satisfies viability. Imagine crying "utility" over Curing Waltz/Minne/Paean

That is bad balancing.
You don't balance around difficulty ever.
Difficulty is meaningless with competent players.

[CKNovel]

rDPS is the correct metric to use, not my fault you have no clue what's being discussed. Be better educated in the future?

To quote the bearded, bald, enraged man:
"DING DONG"

When looking at tank role, which value should you use, rDPS or aDPS?
The correct answer is... Both!

aDPS shows how the tank scale with buffs.
rDPS shows how much they're taxed (therefore how much rDPS they provide to their teammates)

Using rDPS, PLD is better. Using aDPS WAR is better. But in the case of tanks, who are pure DPS, aDPS is the value to go.
Because PLD is a sustained DPS job, it will not scale much better with raid buff, therefore the tax is lower on them.

Once you understand the value of both rDPS and aDPS, you can apply that to DPS.
You can see that SAM is going bonker with buffs, Black mage is above melees and MCH far below melees who provides rDPS.
If you look at rDPS alone, you'd say to yourself "why should I bring a SAM or BLM?" but then you look how much rDPS they generate and go "ooooh".

But we've explained that pages ago.

[FireMage]

That is bad balancing.
You don't balance around difficulty ever.
Difficulty is meaningless with competent players.

You absolutely do, it is the correct way to do so

To quote the bearded, bald, enraged man:
"DING DONG"

When looking at tank role, which value should you use, rDPS or aDPS?
The correct answer is... Both!

aDPS shows how the tank scale with buffs.
rDPS shows how much they're taxed (therefore how much rDPS they provide to their teammates)

Using rDPS, PLD is better. Using aDPS WAR is better. But in the case of tanks, who are pure DPS, aDPS is the value to go.
Because PLD is a sustained DPS job, it will not scale much better with raid buff, therefore the tax is lower on them.

Once you understand the value of both rDPS and aDPS, you can apply that to DPS.
You can see that SAM is going bonker with buffs, Black mage is above melees and MCH far below melees who provides rDPS.
If you look at rDPS alone, you'd say to yourself "why should I bring a SAM or BLM?" but then you look how much rDPS they generate and go "ooooh".

But we've explained that pages ago.

Tanks are a non factor in this matter, note the subforum. And your entire point is...? rDPS is the correct metric

[CKNovel]

Tanks are a non factor in this matter, note the subforum. And your entire point is...? rDPS is the correct metric

Once you understand the value of both rDPS and aDPS, you can apply that to DPS.
You can see that SAM is going bonker with buffs, Black mage is above melees and MCH far below melees who provides rDPS.
If you look at rDPS alone, you'd say to yourself "why should I bring a SAM or BLM?" but then you look how much rDPS they generate and go "ooooh".

But we've explained that pages ago.

rDPS doesn't represent the player input but how a party can raise the value of each jobs.
aDPS is important to understand how each jobs benefits from raid buff. If SAM aDPS was lower, then all DPS with raid buff would have a lower rDPS, especially Dancer.

[SaberMaxwell]

This was stated way back at page 6, but I would look to point out that a percentile discrepancy is not the end all, be all.
The highest I peeked at briefly was about 12687.
A 11% difference is about 1395 damage leaving 11,291 rounding down.
That isn't something to be concerned about, as there is no encounter currently where an 11% difference is going to result in a wipe due to lack of DPS.
If it does occur, it is usually due to errors in rotation, poor balance in boss HP (which SE is infamous for), or other factors.
Its exceedingly rare where such a difference will make any difference in end game content at the minimum ilvl.
So don't get so heated about it. It isn't worth it.
Mind you this is with aDPS, as you utilize rDPS and nDPS the numerical difference decreases.

Seriously, the percentile usage can be pretty deceptive because its the same as someone bringing up likelihood of cancer.

If smoking increases the likelihood of lung cancer by 50%, but the actual rate is .000000001%, it may be statically significant but it is meaningfully significant.

tl;dr It is a game, not your life, chill with the flaming.



That is bad balancing.
You don't balance around difficulty ever.
Difficulty is meaningless with competent players.

Currently, because they had to nerf the fight that did cause wipes due to poor performance. On launch, every damage per second counted--even the 500 dps that GNB brought passively over WAR counted. You bet your britches a dps is looking at another job almost passively doing 1000 more rDPS than it and worrying that they're trolling their static by continuing to play the job they enjoy.

[dspguy]

When it comes to the talk of selfish DPS jobs should do more damage, except a job like MCH since it is easier... the thing to keep in mind is... all jobs are easier** than they used to be. There is no more stance dancing for healers and tanks. There's no more random procs for MCH skills. Mudra casts were cleaned up. SAM has less APM than they used to. No more TP starvation from using AOEs as a physical DPS. Less positionals (looking at you MNK and DRG). And the list goes on and on.

So, lets not talk about "difficulty" of doing DPS in a heavily watered down MMO. What used to make this game difficult has been stripped away. Today's SAM might as well be as difficult as yesterday's MCH.



**Excluding newer jobs since we don't have earlier expansion to compare them to.

[Mithron]

Honestly I think DNC is way easier than MCH, having to time your Hypercharge to not clip Drill/Air Anchor/Chainsaw is far more difficult than pressing Standard Step and Technical Step on cooldown and not clipping Esprit. I specifically play DNC when I feel like having an EZ mode DPS with low effort, much moreso than MCH.