DRK vs. WAR: how do they compare?

[Absurdity]

I think looking at both HOC and BW side by side shows BW is actually pretty similar in mitigation.

HOC = 15% + 15%
BW = 10% + 10% and a shield for around 7-10% of your HP
Both work out pretty strong, considering that the shield also has your mit stacked with it BW's actual mitigation is fairly decent despite what people have been saying, this shows they're actually not far off from each other on single target ignoring healing

This ontop of having the stronger healing effect (ignoring how flash is a outright better bw for a friend), I would consider BW The best personal even in single target, TBN also is the best depending on the situation as it's hard to compare TBN to other tanks personals.

One of the things that make Bloodwhetting feel so much weaker is specific to this raid tier and not even due to Bloodwhetting itself.
Thrill of Battle doesn't provide any damage mitigation which makes it absolutely terrible for busters, Camouflage on the other hand always provides 10% mitigation on top of having double the duration which most likely covers the entire DoT.

[Rithy255]

One of the things that make Bloodwhetting feel so much weaker is specific to this raid tier and not even due to Bloodwhetting itself.
Thrill of Battle doesn't provide any damage mitigation which makes it absolutely terrible for busters, Camouflage on the other hand always provides 10% mitigation on top of having double the duration which most likely covers the entire DoT.

Thrill acts (somewhat) similar to a barrier (just on a much longer cd then TBN) as it extends your HP and healing yourself for 20%, It's normally something you'd want to pair with general mitigation, I generally don't think it's weak in theory, I don't really play warrior that much so I could be wrong.
Equilibrium while it has no mitigation tied to it is generally pretty good for damage over time effects which again supplements your abilities in general, I'd believe that having a Burst heal and a HOT on 60 seconds while using a mitigation would work well against a lot of the damage over time effects? I could be wrong

Warrior and DRK have very different defensive kits (despite being so similar offensively) as one is focused on Sustain but also decent mitigation, while the other lacks sustain but generally has a boat load of mitigations. Warrior will generally have more value on some fights while drk has more value on others, I think it's likely been a bit drk bias (and gunbreaker) but I don't believe warrior would be "struggling" to tank at least not the worst,

I think the real issue is when you actually compare Paladin to other tanks which is pretty awful at tanking, it's blocks not even working properly for the fight and just lacking mitigations for fights "wowie pld has two party mits!!" considering tanks get generally enough party mitigations to cover the fight (4 between them including reprisal... really glad PLD's wings exist they're pretty!), Then PLD's a messy complicated job with pretty awful Damage, at least warrior functions generally well as a tank.

[ForteNightshade]

I think looking at both HOC and BW side by side shows BW is actually pretty similar in mitigation.

HOC = 15% + 15%
BW = 10% + 10% and a shield for around 7-10% of your HP
Both work out pretty strong, considering that the shield also has your mit stacked with it BW's actual mitigation is fairly decent despite what people have been saying, this shows they're actually not far off from each other on single target ignoring healing

This ontop of having the stronger healing effect (ignoring how flash is a outright better bw for a friend), I would consider BW The best personal even in single target, TBN also is the best depending on the situation as it's hard to compare TBN to other tanks personals.

To be fair though, you have to factor in Gunbreaker will always have Brutal Shell going. Bloodwhetting's shield essentially makes that a wash, albeit with less mitigation upfront. Likewise, while BW has a better healing effect, you take more damage upfront due to the 10% difference.

Overall, the two are reasonably close to one another though I'd give Corundum the very slight edge myself. Regardless, the bigger take away here is people need to stop overrating Bloodwhetting as this incredibly broken ability. In dungeons, it's absolutely ridiculous. In raids, it's simply on par with the others or slightly behind.

[RyuDragnier]

Overall, the two are reasonably close to one another though I'd give Corundum the very slight edge myself. Regardless, the bigger take away here is people need to stop overrating Bloodwhetting as this incredibly broken ability. In dungeons, it's absolutely ridiculous. In raids, it's simply on par with the others or slightly behind.

You found the reason why it's considered as such. Again, Criterion will determine whether it's still OP or not. If so...expect the healing on BW to be dropped to per use instead of per hit.

[Rithy255]

To be fair though, you have to factor in Gunbreaker will always have Brutal Shell going. Bloodwhetting's shield essentially makes that a wash, albeit with less mitigation upfront. Likewise, while BW has a better healing effect, you take more damage upfront due to the 10% difference.

Overall, the two are reasonably close to one another though I'd give Corundum the very slight edge myself. Regardless, the bigger take away here is people need to stop overrating Bloodwhetting as this incredibly broken ability. In dungeons, it's absolutely ridiculous. In raids, it's simply on par with the others or slightly behind.

To be fair warrior is a bit overrated. it's pretty balanced well balanced defensively In my opinion, but also pretty strong depending on the fight, the main issue is more or less PLD, I hope the "rework" or adjustments also actually adress to blocking issues (and hopefully more defensively but I doubt it).

I don't know if warrior should be above the GNB/Drk (I'll add that yes it should be buffed as all tanks should be at least 1% in each other), again I think generally warrior and drk are very fight dependent as they have more of a niche depending on the fight and Gunbreaker is likely the best all rounder, general strong mitigations and good sustain.

[fulminating]

Dungeons are largely irrelevant content. The only ones that are tuned relatively well offer incomplete kits and no tomes without roulette bonuses. Nothing but speculation can be said about criterion until they are out, so it can only be judged on savage worth.

[Oizen]

Seems to me that Abyssos was designed by someone who was very upset with how many fights were absolutely cheesed by WAR's kit in Asphodelos.

[Absurdity]

Thrill acts (somewhat) similar to a barrier (just on a much longer cd then TBN) as it extends your HP and healing yourself for 20%, It's normally something you'd want to pair with general mitigation, I generally don't think it's weak in theory, I don't really play warrior that much so I could be wrong.
Equilibrium while it has no mitigation tied to it is generally pretty good for damage over time effects which again supplements your abilities in general, I'd believe that having a Burst heal and a HOT on 60 seconds while using a mitigation would work well against a lot of the damage over time effects? I could be wrong

The problem with Thrill isn't that it provides a 20% HP increase, it's that in this tier specifically it is just flat out worse than flat % mitigation due to how the tank busters work. The more damage you take from the initial hit the higher the resulting DoT damage hits you.

Thrill is great on big single hit busters because the 20% HP might as well just be 20% mitigation for that single hit, you may not have reduced the damage but you have increased the maximum amount of damage that the buster needs to deal to kill you by 20% and you will be easier to heal up after said hit due to the 20% more healing.
But with the current savage busters the 20% max HP do nothing to reduce the following damage over time that you will take and the benefits will run out before the DoT has finished ticking.

[Rithy255]

The problem with Thrill isn't that it provides a 20% HP increase, it's that in this tier specifically it is just flat out worse than flat % mitigation due to how the tank busters work. The more damage you take from the initial hit the higher the resulting DoT damage hits you.

Thrill is great on big single hit busters because the 20% HP might as well just be 20% mitigation for that single hit, you may not have reduced the damage but you have increased the maximum amount of damage that the buster needs to deal to kill you by 20% and you will be easier to heal up after said hit due to the 20% more healing.
But with the current savage busters the 20% max HP do nothing to reduce the following damage over time that you will take and the benefits will run out before the DoT has finished ticking.

That makes sense, didn't really think about it like that, I can understand why it would be less useful.

[RyuDragnier]

Seems to me that Abyssos was designed by someone who was very upset with how many fights were absolutely cheesed by WAR's kit in Asphodelos.

It feels almost at Gordias level. A lot of mechanics to learn, and outside of the few cheeses you can do with invulns, there's a lot of things there to basically break the normal mindsets the playerbase goes by.

"I'm just going to eat this AoE to push."
Okay, you'll get a 40% damage down.

"The tanks can mitigate enough to where we don't need to heal them."
That's what you think, that's a HP% based DoT.

"There won't be enough damage for me to have to GCD heal."
We upgraded the damage a ton, you're going to GCD heal.

"The healers don't need me to Feint/Addle the raidwides much."
That raidwide is going to do enough to 1-shot you if you don't mitigate alongside the tanks and healers.

I'll be honest, I hope they keep all the tiers to this difficulty from now on, because it feels like everybody's being pushed to actively help mitigate, healers are being pushed harder than before to heal people up quickly, and tanks are being pushed even harder than before on the mitigation level. It gives me a feeling I haven't had since HW raiding.