Highly Notorious Monsters

[ThePatriarch]

Im 1000% for this. IF you dont like it. DONT FREAKING CAMP THEM. TOO BAD. We want rare monsters. Lots of them. Im for quick spawns. long spawns. lottery spawns. Place holder spawns. timed spawns. 24 hours spawns. rare spawns. Add it all.
VARIETY PLEASE. These are the things that made me LOVE final fantasy 11 in the early years. And its what i HOPE for and look forward to 2.0 the most. (+New maps)

It was very fun to earn a chance to fight something not everyone can at any time. Made it mean something.

You can still add BCNM style stuff. Trigger pop stuff for those people who dont like competition or cry about potential bot use.
World NM are exciting and fun.

I agree.

While it baffles me me how the people who are so against it spend so much time coming into these threads and try to smash even the possibility of HNM's/FFXI-ish ideas from being implemented... They have the instances they love so much, what does it matter if we have some free roaming open NM's outside for everyone to see.

It is the best of both worlds, and regardless of whether anyone likes it or not HNM's would be a good addition to the game, and would surely produce some more subs.

[Abhayaa]

I'm down with the idea of having 24 hour type HNMs being force spawn from items farmed from normal monsters. I remember this idea being passed around the player base of ffxi as a fix at the time. That, or 12 hour spawn with a 15-30 minute window. If you take out the 3 hour camp, which was really pretty ridiculous, and double the spawns per day to suit more time zones, I don't think there would be the same problem. You would keep the value of the claim with less frustration of losing it. Maybe even as low as a 6 or 8 hour respawn.

NMs need to hold some amount of value. Having them spawn like normal mobs really saps the fun out of them. It also removes inherent value from the items they drop. God forbid actually having to /try/ to get that item you want.

It's the difference between being handed something and having to work for it. Which, in the end, is more satisfying?

[ThePatriarch]

I'm down with the idea of having 24 hour type HNMs being force spawn from items farmed from normal monsters. I remember this idea being passed around the player base of ffxi as a fix at the time. That, or 12 hour spawn with a 15-30 minute window. If you take out the 3 hour camp, which was really pretty ridiculous, and double the spawns per day to suit more time zones, I don't think there would be the same problem. You would keep the value of the claim with less frustration of losing it. Maybe even as low as a 6 or 8 hour respawn.

NMs need to hold some amount of value. Having them spawn like normal mobs really saps the fun out of them. It also removes inherent value from the items they drop. God forbid actually having to /try/ to get that item you want.

It's the difference between being handed something and having to work for it. Which, in the end, is more satisfying?

But people want easy-mode, no competition syle FFXIV where they can go into the same instanced raid as many times in a day that they want, so that they can be 5/5 on all new gear sets in 1 day for their entire PT.

Open World NM's should have some great drops. Not only that the drops should not be equipped on every player walking around Ul'dah. These items should be rare, and inspire people to get them.

I think the general agreement is that respawn timers need to be shorter, much much shorter. I think every 8 hours, with maybe a 30 minute window would be ideal. Regardless, this would still instill that certain feeling of accomplishment when you finally see that item you have been after for weeks in the loot pool.

Do away with this 5/5 gear in 6 hours crap, bring back a challenge.

[Req]

threads like these are always funny.

people who want a greater challenge never say the entire game needs to be really hard. they never say the entire game needs to cater to them and only them. they're only asking for *something* that their demographic can actually find challenging, rewarding and enjoyable. they never try to pry away the more casual content.

so why do the people who want casual content and/or don't want more challenging content insist on ruining things for those who do?

if you don't want it, don't participate in it. simple. but don't try to block it from being implemented into the game just because you personally don't want it.

it just makes you come across like petulant, spoiled little flailing children.

The thing that gets me is there is absolutely no middle ground between the people that want it and dont want it. Its always got to be black and white, casual vs hardcore. The truth of the matter is, the system in FFXI worked because of the fact the average player base was like mid teens to lower 20s with absolutely no responsibilites other than showing up to school. Nowadays, 90% of the player base has a job or is in college or both, and can't wake up at 3 am to camp fafnir or whatever.

This doesn't make me casual, I was there in FFXI every single day when the spawn window was open granted it wasn't during the 6 hour period I was in high school. This whole casual vs hardcore bs needs to stop if the game wants to go anywhere and everyone needs to agree on a new system that can work for everyone, whether they want to participate or not. If the former is true, and they do want to participate in this it needs to be in a way that it is convenient enough that if they can only play 2-3 hours a day they will have the opportunity to do it during the time they log in, yet challenging enough they will only get the opportunity to do it 1-2 times a night max with rewards that are rewarding enough to make the content worthwhile for a long time coming.

To all the people saying they want the 24 hour nms back from ffxi. Was it really the nms that were hard? Or was it the fact you were sitting there for 3 hours at a time waiting for pop windows every half an hour and camping against 60 other people that made it felt worthwhile when you killed it. That isn't difficulty, thats called a time sink. And its the same exact damn thing all of you are complaining about with the new dungeons and their low as hell drop rates, and the same exact damn thing you were complaining about last patch with the keystones.

None of you want challenge, you just want to be able to shove it in other peoples faces when you claim an nm that only spawns once a day.

[ArnoMorley]

The people that don't want a 24 hour respawn or a claim war seem to be missing the point... once a day pops were fine, once a week pops were fine. You're not supposed to be able to kill something over and over again. The thing about hnms in FFXI was that you didn't just kill one nm a day you went for several. If there was one HNM in the game you wouldn't want a once a day spawn but if there were 30 of them it's a different story.

If you cut the spawn time in half you have to cut the drop rate in half, I'd rather kill something once a day with a higher drop rate then kill something over and over again.

And posts using the words time sink should be marked as spam... The difficulty on nms in XI varied, Fafnir/Nidhogg were pretty difficult at times, jormy/tiamat were even harder. Then there's the ToAU hnms, the point of the spawn times were not to make it difficult. It was to spread the game out, drops were kept rarer and everybody didn't camp the same thing everyday.

[ThePatriarch]

None of you want challenge, you just want to be able to shove it in other peoples faces when you claim an nm that only spawns once a day.

Please read before posting.

None of us want the 24 hour pops. We would all like to see those pop times reduced dramatically. I would love 6 hour pops, with a 15 minute window. Also, make the pop spot be an entire zone, not limit it to one specific spot to encourage botting (ie Fafnir/Nid)

We don't want a timesink, we want open world NM's that pose a challenge. We are talking about the kind of NM's that will take several wipes before finding a good strategy. NM's that dont have a gauranteed drop rate. Of course some people are going to be a little jealous when they see people sporting some sexy gear, that is how it will be no matter what. That happens with Instanced gear...

But that certain aspect is not what we are after. We just want the chase, the excitement, the thrill of the claim, and the giddy anticipation as the mob dies and the loot pool finally comes up. To see it dropped nothing. Tomorrow maybe!

I am in your boat though, i work a 50 hour work week, I can't camp like I used to. Which is why I want to dilute the timesink method of FFXIV and make it palpable in this game to cater to everyone. Not just the hardcore/casual gamers.

[Sephrick]

But people want easy-mode, no competition syle FFXIV where they can go into the same instanced raid as many times in a day that they want, so that they can be 5/5 on all new gear sets in 1 day for their entire PT.

Open World NM's should have some great drops. Not only that the drops should not be equipped on every player walking around Ul'dah. These items should be rare, and inspire people to get them.

I think the general agreement is that respawn timers need to be shorter, much much shorter. I think every 8 hours, with maybe a 30 minute window would be ideal. Regardless, this would still instill that certain feeling of accomplishment when you finally see that item you have been after for weeks in the loot pool.

Do away with this 5/5 gear in 6 hours crap, bring back a challenge.

Show me anyone who had a full Darklight set 24 hours after release. I doubt anyone even has a full set now. Let alone a full party in six hours.

This is the problem with this entire discussion. This condescending attitude that instances are inherently easy. Yet the only "challenge" in relation to open world HNMs is the claim wars that 79.3% of players that SE polled do not want.

And what challenge would the fight be when the claim system allows for people outside the claiming party to fight? Should SE forsake their game's design just to further accommodate a minority?

Here's an idea for compromise that I've suggested before: design HNMs that require tens if not hundreds of players to kill. That way it unites the community rather than seperates them. Make them unclaimable and have chances at loot be performance-based like Campaign in XI. That way the open world has terrible beasties randomly popping in it but no one gets locked out of content.

Because in the end, that's all people against HNMs are really concerned with. They can have the best items have abysmal drop rates to preserve the "rarity" and keep the longer respawns to boot.

[ThePatriarch]

Sephrick, as much as we all enjoy reading the same responses from you over and over again in every thread, understand this:

We all like your suggestion of 100 man boss battles, its cool. But the rest of us want plain old, open world HNM's as well. Just because you don't like them, and want to post useless statistics about who all DOESNT want them, is not going to change our pursuit of the implementation of said NM's.

There is a sense of adventure, action, upset, etc when it comes to open world NM hunting. Instances, and 100 man fights that yield no drops will not bring that.

I understand that you think that the population doesn't want HNM's, but I assure you, we do.

[KyrsIsley]

The thing that gets me is there is absolutely no middle ground between the people that want it and dont want it. Its always got to be black and white, casual vs hardcore. The truth of the matter is, the system in FFXI worked because of the fact the average player base was like mid teens to lower 20s with absolutely no responsibilites other than showing up to school. Nowadays, 90% of the player base has a job or is in college or both, and can't wake up at 3 am to camp fafnir or whatever.

This doesn't make me casual, I was there in FFXI every single day when the spawn window was open granted it wasn't during the 6 hour period I was in high school. This whole casual vs hardcore bs needs to stop if the game wants to go anywhere and everyone needs to agree on a new system that can work for everyone, whether they want to participate or not. If the former is true, and they do want to participate in this it needs to be in a way that it is convenient enough that if they can only play 2-3 hours a day they will have the opportunity to do it during the time they log in, yet challenging enough they will only get the opportunity to do it 1-2 times a night max with rewards that are rewarding enough to make the content worthwhile for a long time coming.

To all the people saying they want the 24 hour nms back from ffxi. Was it really the nms that were hard? Or was it the fact you were sitting there for 3 hours at a time waiting for pop windows every half an hour and camping against 60 other people that made it felt worthwhile when you killed it. That isn't difficulty, thats called a time sink. And its the same exact damn thing all of you are complaining about with the new dungeons and their low as hell drop rates, and the same exact damn thing you were complaining about last patch with the keystones.

None of you want challenge, you just want to be able to shove it in other peoples faces when you claim an nm that only spawns once a day.

Well said. I would much rather spend hours theorycrafting trying to maximize the raid's performance to down a boss. Not waking up at 3am, and come back to my computer every 29min just to see if it spawns at the next 30min mark for the next 3 hrs. I think there's a fine line between challenging and time sink. FFXI HNMs when they were on long timer is a time sink. The completely randomness of Ifrit weapon (before totem) and broken distribution system is a time sink, just because you have more time doesn't make you good. Being able to raid efficiently should be the indicator of how good you and your group are.

[Sephrick]

Sephrick, as much as well all enjoy reading the same responses from you over and over again in every thread, understand this:

We all like your suggestion of 100 man boss battles, its cool. But the rest of us want plain old, open world HNM's as well. Just because you don't like them, and want to post useless statistics about who all DOESNT want them, is not going to change our pursuit of the implementation of said NM's.

There is a sense of adventure, action, upset, etc when it comes to open world NM hunting. Instances, and 100 man fights that yield no drops will not bring that.

I understand that you think that the population doesn't want HNM's, but I assure you, we do.

As if your posts aren't the definition of redundancy?

You can call SE's own poll data "useless" all you want but it was those first two polls that helped shape the direction of 2.0's design.

I'm tossing out ideas that can make everyone happy but it's not enough because they circumvent the core motivating factor of those pushing for XI-style HNMs. You only want a pedestal to stand on.

Again, it's a matter of quid pro quo.

To accommodate HNMs as they were in XI's days of old, the majority of players who have stated they don't want open world claim wars have to give up their right to experience content on their own schedule.

To have a game where sought-after loot comes from instances, a minority of player give up the perceived "rush" of claim wars but still get to play content.

Clearly, the majority is paying the heavier price. Which is why the game is going to be mainly instanced.

Even XI couldn't sustain being "old XI" anymore. Why would SE remake content they phased out of the original game?

If you really want to have a successful campaign to have premier content be HNMs, why not take it to XI? And that's not a "Derp, go play XI" statement. It just seems like it might be a more successful concept there than here.

But it all comes back to the fact that if old XI endgame was such a wonderful design, we'd all still be playing it and XI wouldn't have tossed it out.

But in the end, you won't get anywhere without significantly more support. And you won't get that unless you start discussing compromise. Which you've made quite clear you have no interest in doing so.

Each of these threads go exactly the same. Two sides plug their ears and argue for 10+ pages. I state my own personal opinions then try to suggest compromise and am then singled out as some sort of hypocritical hate monger who just wants free items for entering an instance.

Clearly the HNM topic won't be considered a "win" for you unless the result of implementation is an epeen pedestal to stand on.

Allow me to dig in and mirror your personality.

HNMs suck. Camping them is boring. The battles are easy mode. The only challenge is out claiming the RMT bot. Give me the complex and challenging instances 2.0's engine and servers are being designed for over XI content that XI got rid of any day.