Highly Notorious Monsters

[Jinko]

Because some people like to compete. Are athletes elitist jerks because they enjoy competing

You seem to be avoiding the issues that everyone is discussing.

Surely if you want competition PVP and front-line battle will be enough ?

Why does PvE have to be competitive ?

An Athlete competes against other people at something they are good at, just as a PvP players competes against others for the same purpose, competing to claim a monster for bragging rights seems a bit childish. (and lets not fool ourselves bragging rights is what it normally boils down to)

Now if you want competition in the form of leader boards based on the speed at which you killed a BCNM or instanced boss I'm all for that, that's healthy competition.

Claim wars is not healthy and fosters negativity in the community, cheating and MPKing.

[Sephrick]

Wow. I thought it was obvious but I guess not.. Here..

I said "How do you bot claim a BCNM?". When did I say anything about LoO not being open-world or the rest of that stuff you went on about?? I was specifically referring to the Kclub coming from the BCNM, which is where it came from.. That was in response to Peptaru's statement about bot claiming Kclub and Ridill... Ridill dropped from Fafnir.. and that was the timer I was explaining that you clearly don't know anything at all about. As with the rest of XI I'm sure...

In the original post you were suggesting that Kraken Club comes from a BCNM. Which it does now after it was changed in about 2007. However that wasn't always the case. It used to drop from Lord of Onzozo, which is what the person you originally quoted meant when they said "Ridill and Kraken Club."

Since you went right to "How do you bot claim a BCNM" I assumed your details of the pop conditions were meant to reference LoO since, in context, we were talking about Kraken Club and you never mentioned Ridill or Fafnir.

[Clydey]

You seem to be avoiding the issues that everyone is discussing.

Surely if you want competition PVP and front-line battle will be enough ?

PvP is not something I particularly enjoy. I would be all for it being implemented if that's what people wanted, though.

Why does PvE have to be competitive ?

.
It doesn't have to be. I am simply discussing my own preferences.

Most of this game is about PvE, so I would prefer to compete on that level. It's what I personally enjoy the most.

An Athlete competes against other people at something they are good at, just as a PvP players competes against others for the same purpose, competing to claim a monster for bragging rights seems a bit childish. (and lets not fool ourself bragging rights is what it normally boils down to)

This game is mostly PvE. If you're good at the game, you're good at PvE. Therefore, competing on that level is competing at the game's core gameplay.

It is what I and many other people enjoy. No one is telling you that you have to feel the same way, but a significant portion of the player base enjoy competing at the PvE level. They enjoy pitting their linkshell against other linkshells.

[ArnoMorley]

A lot of the anti hnm / competition attitudes im seeing are exactly one of the biggest contributers to 1.0 failing. This idea that hard core gamers have to punished at every aspect of the game has got to stop. The hard core players should be superior to the casual gamers, we shouldn't be knocked down to their level or have our content taken away because of other people.

Biggest gripe I can recall is the fatigue system, hard core players wanted to level up for long periods of time, we weren't allowed to do this because the casual gamers would be out leveled. Well that's the way it should be, if you can't level as much you don't deserve to be on our level.


Sephrick acts like he's in the majority, I don't see that here, this thread seems split down the middle. If it's split down the middle of a game where the hard core gamers have quit and have only casual players left that should tell you something.

Many of the game's failures are because of casual players wanting to be on equal ground with other players. It's why we had no AH, some idiots wanted a barter system because apparently they couldn't handle XI's AH. The way nms are now is another failure because of those people.


SE should have realized their user base was full of hard core players, instead they turned on us and look where it got them.

[Peptaru]

I'm better than all y'all!

I enjoy hardcore content and I play.... a lot. Your attitude does nothing except allow you to let off steam. Try making calm and rational posts that express a point of view instead of whatever the hell this rant was, I read it and regardless of my opinions, you're wrong just for the way you said all that.

Clydey may have differeing opinions than some people on some subjects but at least he tries to have conversations to relay his points. Some points I agree with him, others we have very differing opinions.

+1 Clydey.
-10 raving lunatic.

[Dubberrucky]

Because some people like to compete. Are athletes elitist jerks because they enjoy competing? Obviously not. People enjoy distinguising themselves. If I do something, I want to do it as well as I can. I also want to measure my best against someone else's best. This also applies to groups/linkshells. There is nothing wrong with someone enjoying competition.

There is not anything wrong with competition. People are not wrong for wanting to compete. A true competition between players though is PvP. I'm not big into PvP myself but I did enjoy a good Brenner in XI and would be psyched to see them add it here as well though I have my doubts. They did PvP very well there because it took nothing away from those who didn't like PvP but sadly it wasn't very popular. HNM drops show not so much competition as luck in who can land a claim as well as the drop which gets to the point of not really being a distinguishing factor after a while.

[Clydey]

There is not anything wrong with competition. People are not wrong for wanting to compete. A true competition between players though is PvP. I'm not big into PvP myself but I did enjoy a good Brenner in XI and would be psyched to see them add it here as well though I have my doubts. They did PvP very well there because it took nothing away from those who didn't like PvP but sadly it wasn't very popular. HNM drops show not so much competition as luck in who can land a claim as well as the drop which gets to the point of not really being a distinguishing factor after a while.

As I said earlier, I would like the luck element to be removed from the claim system. I expected some sort of critique of my proposal, but I haven't had much feedback so far. I suggested it hastily, but it seems solid even after taking the time to consider it. Skill and organisation would be the keys to claiming the HNM, rather than a bot.

[Sephrick]

A lot of the anti hnm / competition attitudes im seeing are exactly one of the biggest contributers to 1.0 failing. This idea that hard core gamers have to punished at every aspect of the game has got to stop. The hard core players should be superior to the casual gamers, we shouldn't be knocked down to their level or have our content taken away because of other people.

The biggest factor in the failed release was that the game was forced onto store shelves before it was anywhere near completion.

Biggest gripe I can recall is the fatigue system, hard core players wanted to level up for long periods of time, we weren't allowed to do this because the casual gamers would be out leveled. Well that's the way it should be, if you can't level as much you don't deserve to be on our level.

Who knows what the original team had in mind when it came to the fatigue system. Many of us in beta didn't even notice it until they ramped up exp gains to make us hit it.

And let's also be honest about the effectiveness of fatigue. It didn't stop anyone or slow down anyone. Especially the hardcore levelers.

Sephrick acts like he's in the majority, I don't see that here, this thread seems split down the middle. If it's split down the middle of a game where the hard core gamers have quit and have only casual players left that should tell you something.

In the matter of instance vs open world, the only true data we have is the player's poll.

There's no way any thread is representative of the general population. Not everyone comes on these forums. Many just play the game and browse lodestone occasionally.

Many of the game's failures are because of casual players wanting to be on equal ground with other players. It's why we had no AH, some idiots wanted a barter system because apparently they couldn't handle XI's AH. The way nms are now is another failure because of those people.

XIV's server structure couldn't handle an Auction House, not the players. That you suggest that the original design of the Market Wards was in any way casual friendly is a joke.

Not liking the current list of NMs and their pop conditions is your own personal taste. That doesn't make it a failure. Especially now that those drops can be redeemed for company seals there's plenty of reason to camp them all day.

Look at that, a reason to compete over open world NMs more than once. Who'da thunk. But they don't give "ZOMG EPIC HELMET OF EPEEN +1" so it's not enough, right?

SE should have realized their user base was full of hard core players, instead they turned on us and look where it got them.

Again, XIV's current situation is one caused by rushing an unfinished product to market. Not one section of the player base or another.

[Antipika]

A lot of the anti hnm / competition attitudes im seeing are exactly one of the biggest contributers to 1.0 failing. This idea that hard core gamers have to punished at every aspect of the game has got to stop. The hard core players should be superior to the casual gamers, we shouldn't be knocked down to their level or have our content taken away because of other people.

Biggest gripe I can recall is the fatigue system, hard core players wanted to level up for long periods of time, we weren't allowed to do this because the casual gamers would be out leveled. Well that's the way it should be, if you can't level as much you don't deserve to be on our level.


Sephrick acts like he's in the majority, I don't see that here, this thread seems split down the middle. If it's split down the middle of a game where the hard core gamers have quit and have only casual players left that should tell you something.

Many of the game's failures are because of casual players wanting to be on equal ground with other players. It's why we had no AH, some idiots wanted a barter system because apparently they couldn't handle XI's AH. The way nms are now is another failure because of those people.


SE should have realized their user base was full of hard core players, instead they turned on us and look where it got them.

I'll give you a protip; there are more casual players out there than hardcore players. If you check all successful AAA titles, there are more content for casual players than HCG there. Just deal with it. XI era is over, no one is willing to camp a stupid NM for 3h, and then to lose the claim against a LS botting...

And even if you get the claim, then you need to drop the item you want (or even try and kill the nm properly without getting MPK'd by a competing LS).

Competition is fine, but shouldn't be frontal like that and rather be in instances/raids.

Make raids that are so hard that only HCG will be able to fully clear them within a month, while casual may need to wait the next patch in order to clear it. That's how content have to be designed. I agree with the fact that a HCG should be rewarded more than a casual player, but frontal competition in a PvE environment is just pointless and lead to what we all know. Use of third party tools/cheats, griefing, etc.

I remember firsts Rift raids/T2 dungeons being so hard that casuals couldn't simply clear them and PUG would just fail everything. It took several patches and nerf for an average player to be able to access certain piece of gear. On my shards for example, we were only THREE guilds being able to clear latest content, and we were competing for shard's first. We all had a sense of competition "Oh Guild XXXX managed to beat Boss XXX yesterday! Damn we're late, we need to try and get that and the next boss down before they do..." etc.

So people still compete, HCG gets way superior loots than casuals. No frontal attacks, no grief, no insults/drama while people camp, no use of tools to get a direct advantage over others.

[Jinko]

A lot of the anti hnm / competition attitudes im seeing are exactly one of the biggest contributers to 1.0 failing.

Keep telling yourself that because we all know thats not the truth.

I won't bother explaining what was the case of its failure because I'm pretty sure you know as well as the rest of us that the game was a stinking turd when first released.

Sephrick acts like he's in the majority, I don't see that here, this thread seems split down the middle. If it's split down the middle of a game where the hard core gamers have quit and have only casual players left that should tell you something.

How have all the hardcore players quit, you would have to be pretty hardcore to stick around on this game if you ask me, there seem to be plenty of "I wish this was FF11" threads also, which suggests to me there are still plenty of hardcore playing this game.

Many of the game's failures are because of casual players wanting to be on equal ground with other players. It's why we had no AH, some idiots wanted a barter system because apparently they couldn't handle XI's AH. The way nms are now is another failure because of those people.

What the what !!

We weren't even asked what market system we wanted, so lets not fool ourself like any of us made or had the choice.

The idiot who wanted the barter system was Tanaka for what its worth.

SE should have realized their user base was full of hard core players, instead they turned on us and look where it got them.

Yea because the millions of people who buy offline Final Fantasy games are all hardcore.