Why does everyone complain about STORY based MMO's?

[ZedxKayn]

Did you do it?

Did anyone you personally know do it?

Trying to use an outlier as justification for changing things will lead to problems when the vast majority of the player base is not capable of duplicating the feat.

I don't see how that's relevant, their statement was that it was not possible to solo things unless massively overgearing them.
Which is plainly wrong, "outlier" or not.

I also have no doubts whatsoever that I or half of the people I play with could do it, if we felt like wasting time figuring out how to approach it and actually doing it. Not much of a gotcha when you know how to tank...

[Amenara]

People skipping msq are also skipping dungeons that would have taught them the mechanic they failed wasting other people time.

Forgetting that a lot of story dungeons can be done with trusts, soon to be all, and you can just have the NPCs carry you through them.

[Ransu]

Yet somehow seems to neglect key elements of both...

It's becoming closer to a glorified visual novel on many fronts and mysteriously I find that the very same posters who deny this will then swoop into any thread politely requesting more midcore or competitive content and declare that we don't need any.

Maybe you should try actually doing content instead of idling in Limsa? There's plenty of stuff to do in the game once you're done with the MSQ and the MSQ itself mixes dungeons in throughout the story, so its not like there isn't content during the MSQ.

[Theodric]

Maybe you should try actually doing content instead of idling in Limsa? There's plenty of stuff to do in the game once you're done with the MSQ and the MSQ itself mixes dungeons in throughout the story, so its not like there isn't content during the MSQ.

I don't spend my time idling in Limsa, actually. Though certainly, such comments prove my point as to what the game is well known for!

As you can see my checking my character profile on the lodestone, I've accomplished most of what I set out to do. I could pursue another lengthy grind for the sake of it but I have more interesting things to do with my free time than that. Especially given the lack of an equivalent to Eureka or Bozja that involves a lengthy grind but brings the community together into one big, chaotic zone.

I think it's strange, too, when people try to insinuate that players shouldn't ask for more things to do if they run out of stuff that interests them. I don't find savage or ultimate raiding in this game to be particularly engaging - since none of the encounters are treated as canon content and they're more like glorified trails than actual raids.

I do a lot of PvP though!

[TaleraRistain]

No, removing the MSQ's isn't necessary - and isn't what many of us would like to see happen. I do think the approach TESO takes would be beneficial moving forward, though. Where each new expansion is basically self contained, scales to the player character and can be explored in whatever order they so choose.

The problem with that design in ESO and most other MMOs before and after it are that there's no inter-connected story so it's very easy for the world to feel disjointed. One story can't reference events from another, because they can't guarantee that you did that part yet. It's like when XIV doesn't make things part of the MSQ so it can't comment on events in the MSQ unless it's special dialogue, but they've stopped doing that as much. It also contributes to the idea that elsewhere in the world doesn't exist and isn't important.

In regards to another comment about XIV being a glorified visual novel, I have to ask what you think is missing?

When playing a JRPG, you go somewhere and talk to an NPC to get some information on opening a temple and that NPC sends you on a quest to go get the Golden MacGuffin from a dungeon before they will tell you what you need to know. So you go through the dungeon and have eleventy million random battles and then a boss fight and you get the Golden MacGuffin then you go back to the NPC. And that NPC says go talk to this other NPC but oh that's on the other side of the world so you'll have to go through the tunnel and its eleventy million random battles and maybe a boss fight and then through the forest and eleventy million random battles and then you go do a fetch quest so you can use a canoe to get across the lake with its eleventy million random battles to the place where the other NPC is. Then they give you half the information and say another NPC in the original town has the rest. So you go all the way back to the original town across the lake and its eleventy million random battles, through the forest and its eleventy million random battles, through the tunnel and its eleventy million random battles and maybe a new boss and then you get to the new NPC who says they'll tell you how to open the temple but you have to go find them materials to bake a cake first oh and you'll also need the Golden MacGuffin or the temple guardians will destroy you.

But when you strip out the eleventy million random battles and grinding for levels, any JPRG is just a succession of cutscenes, fetch quests, and go here and there and back again. And that's exactly the same as what we do in XIV. If anything, XIV streamlines the process because you don't have eleventy million random battles and you don't have to grind for levels to continue the story. But all the other elements are general issue JRPG elements.

[aveyond-dreams]

6.X has me quite concerned with the lack of longer lived content. We shouldn’t have to wait this long for things like Deep Dungeon to become available or Bozja-like zones. Having to wait until the expansion is halfway through for these things should never have been normalized.

[ForteNightshade]

Did you do it?

Did anyone you personally know do it?

Trying to use an outlier as justification for changing things will lead to problems when the vast majority of the player base is not capable of duplicating the feat.

This is entirely missing the point it shouldn't be possible regardless of skill level. The fact Paglth'an could be solo'd on release by anyone speaks to how horrendously undertuned the dungeon was. Likewise, both Zodiark and Hydaelyn were killed without healers on release. This highlights how comically low their damage output was that an entire role can be omitted from an EX trial. Hence why both have been criticised as being extremely easy. If the healer isn't even necessary in a good group, even an average group won't struggle with healers. Those healers will simply being casting Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis.

[Snowdove]

In a game where the story is main focus behind the game, you are not rushed to get to endgame, you are not FORCED to play optimally to get through content...

Yet every day i see the same thing: 'WAH WAH STORY IS TOO LONG'

Seriously, The game IS the story.

The problem isn't the story. The problem is that the story-to-gameplay ratio is wildly out of balance. 20 minutes of cutscenes to 10 seconds of pew pew isn't fun.

[TaleraRistain]

6.X has me quite concerned with the lack of longer lived content. We shouldn’t have to wait this long for things like Deep Dungeon to become available or Bozja-like zones. Having to wait until the expansion is halfway through for these things should never have been normalized.

But it isn't like we're not getting anything at all. We haven't heard anything about an adventure zone so no one knows if that experiment is even returning or not. We are getting Criterion dungeons. And we have the normal combat related content that is always included, like 8 and 24 mans. These more experimental pieces of content don't always follow a set schedule. And we are getting non-combat experimental content like Island Sanctuary.

[Ransu]

I don't spend my time idling in Limsa, actually. Though certainly, such comments prove my point as to what the game is well known for!

As you can see my checking my character profile on the lodestone, I've accomplished most of what I set out to do. I could pursue another lengthy grind for the sake of it but I have more interesting things to do with my free time than that. Especially given the lack of an equivalent to Eureka or Bozja that involves a lengthy grind but brings the community together into one big, chaotic zone.

I think it's strange, too, when people try to insinuate that players shouldn't ask for more things to do if they run out of stuff that interests them. I don't find savage or ultimate raiding in this game to be particularly engaging - since none of the encounters are treated as canon content and they're more like glorified trails than actual raids.

I do a lot of PvP though!

Then its time to play something else. End of the day the problem here is you, not the game.