Why does everyone complain about STORY based MMO's?

[ForteNightshade]

Not THIS again...

We have been over this repeatedly. The MSQ is this way by deliberate design because it has to cater to people of all skill levels. it is STORY content not a savage or extreme. There is plenty of hard content in FF 14 ( and more to come ) that can cater to this miniscule portion of the playerbase...the MSQ is not meant to be a brick wall. It is not meant to be completed "by only the worthy".

"The time between seconds" is the one you are referring to. That scene with Zenos? Is a no win scenario. An illustration of just how powerful he is...and to drive home that not even the Warrior of Light is invincible.

Not this again, indeed.

You can increase the difficulty of content without making it anywhere near Extreme or Savage levels. Insinuating otherwise is simply being disingenuous. Presently, the MSQ as a whole is essentially one massive participation reward that's almost impossible to fail. This does undercut the whole epic saga of the story when the supposed big bad can be facerolled. A prime example of this is Thordan. Even as a brand new player only ten months into FFXIV when I first cleared, I was disappointed by how much of a joke he was—to the point I stopped even dodging mechanics because not only was nobody else bothering. When I was hit myself, they did next to nothing. Did it ruin the conclusion of Heavensward? No. However, it certainly left a sour taste. Shinryu, conversely, was much better despite still being easy enough. Sadly, power creep as trivialized that fight but in his heyday, he was good.

As for that scene with Zenos. It's a cheat trope that isn't explained well. We never learn why Zenos can stomp us into the ground so easily yet a handful of dungeons later, we're returning the favor. He's just invincibly strong because the plot needed him to be.

[Ransu]

Not this again, indeed.

You can increase the difficulty of content without making it anywhere near Extreme or Savage levels. Insinuating otherwise is simply being disingenuous. Presently, the MSQ as a whole is essentially one massive participation reward that's almost impossible to fail. This does undercut the whole epic saga of the story when the supposed big bad can be facerolled. A prime example of this is Thordan. Even as a brand new player only ten months into FFXIV when I first cleared, I was disappointed by how much of a joke he was—to the point I stopped even dodging mechanics because not only was nobody else bothering. When I was hit myself, they did next to nothing. Did it ruin the conclusion of Heavensward? No. However, it certainly left a sour taste. Shinryu, conversely, was much better despite still being easy enough. Sadly, power creep as trivialized that fight but in his heyday, he was good.

As for that scene with Zenos. It's a cheat trope that isn't explained well. We never learn any Zenos can stomp us into the ground so easily yet a handful of dungeons later, we're returning the favor. He's just invincibly strong because the plot needed him to be.

Thordan and Shinryu both were relatively difficult when they first came out. Shinryu was actually nerfed a few times. All the old expansions had a modicum of difficult content mixed into them, but old content wont stay the same forever. Potencies have changed significantly since HW and SB.

Its just the nature of old content. They'd have to redo things to maintain the same difficulty as when they were new.

[ForteNightshade]

Thordan and Shinryu both were relatively difficult when they first came out. Shinryu was actually nerfed a few times. All the old expansions had a modicum of difficult content mixed into them, but old content wont stay the same forever. Potencies have changed significantly since HW and SB.

Its just the nature of old content. They'd have to redo things to maintain the same difficulty as when they were new.

Ahahahaha

No, he wasn't. This has been a complaint for years even from people who cleared him on release. He does nothing. He literally can't hurt you even at the lowest ilvl reasonably obtained. Likewise, Shinryu was never once nerfed. People kept demanding he be nerfed but it never happened. Thordan, in Heavensward, which is what I was referring to, was a complete joke. I should know... I beat him, in Heavensward. As did many others, all of whom also pointed how incredibly easy he was.

[HyoMinPark]

Thordan and Shinryu both were relatively difficult when they first came out. Shinryu was actually nerfed a few times. All the old expansions had a modicum of difficult content mixed into them, but old content wont stay the same forever. Potencies have changed significantly since HW and SB.

Its just the nature of old content. They'd have to redo things to maintain the same difficulty as when they were new.

Thordan normal mode was never a difficult fight. Even at HW launch, he was a faceroll. He was an excellent cinematic, but he was never, ever hard. I think you’re confusing him with Thordan EX, which was basically a Savage fight when it came out.

They also never nerfed Shinryu. Not directly. The only “nerf” he got was players getting better gear, since he had no item level sync; and he was released with i290 gear. SB’s item level ended at i400. The only SB content ever nerfed was Orbonne Monastery when they put in the Echo; and Thundergod Cid, which was a direct nerf because people whined about him being hard. Now? The entire raid is a joke, and TGC has to try really hard to wipe the entire raid. It’s easier for people to die simply from not healing Cleansing Strike to full than it is by punishment of failing his mechanics.

Orbonne’s nerfs happened in ShB, btw. The content was not touched when it was relevant.

[Avoidy]

Not this again, indeed.

You can increase the difficulty of content without making it anywhere near Extreme or Savage levels. Insinuating otherwise is simply being disingenuous. Presently, the MSQ as a whole is essentially one massive participation reward that's almost impossible to fail. This does undercut the whole epic saga of the story when the supposed big bad can be facerolled. A prime example of this is Thordan. Even as a brand new player only ten months into FFXIV when I first cleared, I was disappointed by how much of a joke he was—to the point I stopped even dodging mechanics because not only was nobody else bothering. When I was hit myself, they did next to nothing. Did it ruin the conclusion of Heavensward? No. However, it certainly left a sour taste. Shinryu, conversely, was much better despite still being easy enough. Sadly, power creep as trivialized that fight but in his heyday, he was good.

Even ShB's final boss suffers from this; it's so sad. It burns down so fast.
Basically if you ever take a newbie to any cool old trials, you've gotta select the minimum item level/no echo settings and run in with a full party so they can get some semblance of a good experience. It shouldn't need to be this way. But every time people propose retooling it or tweaking it or making the mechanics have any consequence at all, some people stomp their feet because they think we want it to be Ultimate.

I believe this is just another element contributing to the story feeling sort of "meh" for a lot of people. Like, these bosses can take dozens of hours to arrive at, and then you stop and wait in a queue for ages depending on your job, and once you get in the thing just... melts. Retooling the ARR stuff was a good start, but the rest of the game desperately needs that treatment as well. Thordan is a joke like you mentioned, but most of the older trials are as well, and the dungeons are basically a 14 minute stroll.

[Larirawiel]

Even ShB's final boss suffers from this; it's so sad. It burns down so fast.

Almost every MMO has this problem. And i do not know how to solve it. And yes, it is a huge immersion breaker when a big bad and evil enemy burns down very fast. But if you set the difficulty higher then this enemy will become an impassable wall for many players. And FF14 would be literary over for them.



Cheers

[Supersnow845]

Almost every MMO has this problem. And i do not know how to solve it. And yes, it is a huge immersion breaker when a big bad and evil enemy burns down very fast. But if you set the difficulty higher then this enemy will become an impassable wall for many players. And FF14 would be literary over for them

We also have to consider the immersion for other people though, there is a non zero amount of people who would have quit the game after the disappointment and frankly immersion break that happens when you topple bosses like thordran or shinryu with almost no effort

What about their experience is that not equally as valid

[Larirawiel]

We also have to consider the immersion for other people though, there is a non zero amount of people who would have quit the game after the disappointment and frankly immersion break that happens when you topple bosses like thordran or shinryu with almost no effort

What about their experience is that not equally as valid

Yes, this is true. But i have not a good solution for this. Maybe the story writers could make the real dangerous enemies optional and not relevant for the MSQ. But then you could not fight Zodiark and Hydaelyn as a part of the MSQ etc. It is a difficult situation to make dangerous enemies really dangerous without excluding not so good players from progress.


Cheers