Why does everyone complain about STORY based MMO's?

[Ransu]

Not this again, indeed.

You can increase the difficulty of content without making it anywhere near Extreme or Savage levels. Insinuating otherwise is simply being disingenuous. Presently, the MSQ as a whole is essentially one massive participation reward that's almost impossible to fail. This does undercut the whole epic saga of the story when the supposed big bad can be facerolled. A prime example of this is Thordan. Even as a brand new player only ten months into FFXIV when I first cleared, I was disappointed by how much of a joke he was—to the point I stopped even dodging mechanics because not only was nobody else bothering. When I was hit myself, they did next to nothing. Did it ruin the conclusion of Heavensward? No. However, it certainly left a sour taste. Shinryu, conversely, was much better despite still being easy enough. Sadly, power creep as trivialized that fight but in his heyday, he was good.

As for that scene with Zenos. It's a cheat trope that isn't explained well. We never learn any Zenos can stomp us into the ground so easily yet a handful of dungeons later, we're returning the favor. He's just invincibly strong because the plot needed him to be.

Thordan and Shinryu both were relatively difficult when they first came out. Shinryu was actually nerfed a few times. All the old expansions had a modicum of difficult content mixed into them, but old content wont stay the same forever. Potencies have changed significantly since HW and SB.

Its just the nature of old content. They'd have to redo things to maintain the same difficulty as when they were new.

[ForteNightshade]

Thordan and Shinryu both were relatively difficult when they first came out. Shinryu was actually nerfed a few times. All the old expansions had a modicum of difficult content mixed into them, but old content wont stay the same forever. Potencies have changed significantly since HW and SB.

Its just the nature of old content. They'd have to redo things to maintain the same difficulty as when they were new.

Ahahahaha

No, he wasn't. This has been a complaint for years even from people who cleared him on release. He does nothing. He literally can't hurt you even at the lowest ilvl reasonably obtained. Likewise, Shinryu was never once nerfed. People kept demanding he be nerfed but it never happened. Thordan, in Heavensward, which is what I was referring to, was a complete joke. I should know... I beat him, in Heavensward. As did many others, all of whom also pointed how incredibly easy he was.

[HyoMinPark]

Thordan and Shinryu both were relatively difficult when they first came out. Shinryu was actually nerfed a few times. All the old expansions had a modicum of difficult content mixed into them, but old content wont stay the same forever. Potencies have changed significantly since HW and SB.

Its just the nature of old content. They'd have to redo things to maintain the same difficulty as when they were new.

Thordan normal mode was never a difficult fight. Even at HW launch, he was a faceroll. He was an excellent cinematic, but he was never, ever hard. I think you’re confusing him with Thordan EX, which was basically a Savage fight when it came out.

They also never nerfed Shinryu. Not directly. The only “nerf” he got was players getting better gear, since he had no item level sync; and he was released with i290 gear. SB’s item level ended at i400. The only SB content ever nerfed was Orbonne Monastery when they put in the Echo; and Thundergod Cid, which was a direct nerf because people whined about him being hard. Now? The entire raid is a joke, and TGC has to try really hard to wipe the entire raid. It’s easier for people to die simply from not healing Cleansing Strike to full than it is by punishment of failing his mechanics.

Orbonne’s nerfs happened in ShB, btw. The content was not touched when it was relevant.

[Avoidy]

Not this again, indeed.

You can increase the difficulty of content without making it anywhere near Extreme or Savage levels. Insinuating otherwise is simply being disingenuous. Presently, the MSQ as a whole is essentially one massive participation reward that's almost impossible to fail. This does undercut the whole epic saga of the story when the supposed big bad can be facerolled. A prime example of this is Thordan. Even as a brand new player only ten months into FFXIV when I first cleared, I was disappointed by how much of a joke he was—to the point I stopped even dodging mechanics because not only was nobody else bothering. When I was hit myself, they did next to nothing. Did it ruin the conclusion of Heavensward? No. However, it certainly left a sour taste. Shinryu, conversely, was much better despite still being easy enough. Sadly, power creep as trivialized that fight but in his heyday, he was good.

Even ShB's final boss suffers from this; it's so sad. It burns down so fast.
Basically if you ever take a newbie to any cool old trials, you've gotta select the minimum item level/no echo settings and run in with a full party so they can get some semblance of a good experience. It shouldn't need to be this way. But every time people propose retooling it or tweaking it or making the mechanics have any consequence at all, some people stomp their feet because they think we want it to be Ultimate.

I believe this is just another element contributing to the story feeling sort of "meh" for a lot of people. Like, these bosses can take dozens of hours to arrive at, and then you stop and wait in a queue for ages depending on your job, and once you get in the thing just... melts. Retooling the ARR stuff was a good start, but the rest of the game desperately needs that treatment as well. Thordan is a joke like you mentioned, but most of the older trials are as well, and the dungeons are basically a 14 minute stroll.

[Larirawiel]

Even ShB's final boss suffers from this; it's so sad. It burns down so fast.

Almost every MMO has this problem. And i do not know how to solve it. And yes, it is a huge immersion breaker when a big bad and evil enemy burns down very fast. But if you set the difficulty higher then this enemy will become an impassable wall for many players. And FF14 would be literary over for them.



Cheers

[Carin-Eri]

Not THIS again...

We have been over this repeatedly. The MSQ is this way by deliberate design because it has to cater to people of all skill levels. it is STORY content not a savage or extreme. There is plenty of hard content in FF 14 ( and more to come ) that can cater to this miniscule portion of the playerbase...the MSQ is not meant to be a brick wall. It is not meant to be completed "by only the worthy".

Well I, for one, agree with you here.

[Rayne6665]

Some people just dont care for the storylines so they skip every cutscenes except the ones that can’t be skipped and want to get right to the unlocked contents lol . From ARR to EW , i have never once skip any cutscenes cus the story gets me hyped, get me edge of my seat, etc xD but hey, they do them lmao

[drtasteyummy]

Because it's badly designed.

- The story is not encapsulated, one expansion is usually as big as a Harry Potter book so
new players have to get through all at once just to enjoy some raiding or dailies with their friends
- If you're late you probably faced an endspoiler along the way anyway
- It's a story based game with fewest voice lines I've ever seen even tho' it makes the biggest profit for the company
ignoring the absolute abysmal face animations that often take any seriousness out of the conversation like it's some Warcraft 3 unit plate animation level
- There is barely any refraction of the old story content
- The story really isn't as godlike as people make it out to be and worse SE hit just the right amount of dialoge so that whenever you're ready to
lean back you have to move your character to a position 10 yards from the current one
- And on top of the top of that they have a gear farming system that punishes you for not rushing through this lmao

[Ransu]

Then what they should do is instead of having tons of brain dead filler crap they should just pause the main story. Make the next quest available at level x sort of thing. Then after the climax as you call it. Players can unwind in there own ways rather than go from slayer of gods to squisher of bugs eating our crops.. that stuff feels like am absolute chore which is why it gets so much hate.
or just make it all side quests instead of main quests.

They did that when ARR was new. People then complained about having to grind out dungeons/side quests to get to the next level of the MSQ. Filler MSQ quests that change the pace a bit are perfectly fine as they are. Even books do this where there is a break in the pace of the story and shift gears for a little bit. This isn't something unique to FFXIV.

- And on top of the top of that they have a gear farming system that punishes you for not rushing through this lmao

What are you on about? FFXIV's gearing systems is probably the most casual gear progression in any major MMO.

[Reap00]

In a game where the story is main focus behind the game, you are not rushed to get to endgame, you are not FORCED to play optimally to get through content...

Yet every day i see the same thing: 'WAH WAH STORY IS TOO LONG'

Seriously, The game IS the story.

It is a FINAL FANTASY game.

There are plenty of MMO's out there that destroy their own storylines for the 'endgame progression' aspect of the game, if you want to play those, then do that.

FFXIV should never move away from the story aspect of the game, the MSQ is what keeps this game coherent.

We need more threads like this. Keep them coming friend.