Melee classes are sad in CC

[ShinyChariot]

1) Our LB on paper does sound likes its "holyshwtf"...

Things will always change when you get into different tiers. Warriors can haphazardly rend into a group of 5 with no repercussions in Bronze. You do that in higher tiers, you're gonna die. Gserpent is valid when he says you have to bait out CCs before you go do anything nuts. But on different tiers, none of that makes sense because nobody even thinks about that or has to do it. And the enemy has to have an established strategy to even get the proper reactions out of them, but if they don't even have that, what are you even trying to bait? They're blind and can't smell, what's the use of dangling bait in front of something that can't react to it at all?

People can mention a billion benefits a job has in higher tiers completely missing the fact that such layers of meta may not exist in other tiers.

Crystal : "RPR LB can bypass guard."

Diamond: "Omg, I can see how that can be so useful."

Bronze : "WHAT'S GUARD? ENEMY TEAM DOESN'T EVEN USE GUARD? POSSIBLE TO TIME! WHAT IF I'M GUARDING TOO? I JUST IMMEDIATELY USE BLUE BUTTON WHEN I STEP ON CRYSTAL! WHO CARES? TRASH EFFECT! RPR LB TRASH!"

RPR can spam their LB and keep them in fear/bind and focused on you so your team can clean them up. It's not gonna work if your team is trash and won't capitalize. No matter what you play in this game, you're never going to turn anything around by yourself (Unless SAM) and your spammable LB that's the only melee LB that doesn't end in just one big damage. You actually have to do things. You're not getting POTG every time.

Just because your team can't take advantage of the advantages you're giving them, doesn't mean RPR is bad.

Maybe you're not a good teammate, Maybe your entire team is an uncoordinated mess.

You're never always going to get everything out of a RPR LB, that's why you can use it so often, spam that line AoE that recharges it, get some kills and assists to tack some DPS on that skill. Newsflash, sucky RPRs probably can't keep this on cooldown or don't even know it gives LB

Me personally, I always keep barrier for before I teleport in and use cone heavy into LB, I make sure my team is around me so they can pick up the pieces like pigeons, I make sure I use AoE bind first on one of them, go ham for a few seconds, if they're walking away from me, guess what? The teleport gives me movement speed, I've done enough melee damage or my timer is running out (which you should be paying attention to like MNK's Earth Reply), I teleport away and use Communio. If I feel like I'm gonna get my cheeks smashed, I accept I did enough with the Debuffs and retreat. Maybe fire off a Communio with Harvest on my way out, which does great damage as well. Then get back to charging my LB.

[Neoyoshi]

I do enjoy me some good ol' fashion Monk tears.

[ShinyChariot]

2) crest....why tf was a dps increase tied to a defensive skill...

You pop it before you go in and when it breaks, and your health is falling off and your MP is low (I see so many dummies dying with full MP bars, it's infuriating), or you're gonna die, you teleport away, pop heals, eat a kit, potion, until shield and tele is back up so you can take another dive. In and out, in and out. You're supposed to use it for BOTH DPS and barrier. You can walk and chew gum at the same time. It even has a neat little sound when it breaks to let you know to start worrying about getting away, how nice. RPR is awesome. Instead of being attached to what you want, you need to understand the intentions and then use it as intended. It's very useful, just not the way you want.

3) Had to play paladin bard warrior etc until finally dark knight was announced. Then guess what? They made it a mf tank and was forced to play a non dps for several more years until reaper was finally released as the dps i was praying for dark knight to be. I say all that to say this....people dont care about what the devs intend a job to play like. We choose our jobs based on how much me love it and what role in battle it plays. I waited years to play a dark based dps and after drk was a major disappoint imagine being told to play reaper and a half baked tank or suffer being written off as "unskilled". Ironic huh?

I understand how you feel, and I too find it puzzling the decisions devs make sometimes, but it's not too out there to where it's not too difficult to see where they're coming from.


You're not "Unskilled", this is a bit more complicated than that? I can't tell you to change how you feel about things or else I'd ask if you've tried abandoning your perceptions and expectations that you've fostered over many years.

But for your enjoyment, you'll do enough in PvP if you make the most with what you're given, if you survive, if you're alive to deal damage, if you're smart and know when to min max engagement/DPS/Health/disengagement. Manage your burst windows and compile all your abilities into an explosive moment that all synergize with each other.

You're gonna be a beast on both RPR and DRK.

And you know what the gigachads say, every job is a DPS if you play it right. Tank is just Blue DPS, Healer is green DPS.

You learn how to use what they give you, you're always going to do more damage on a tank/healer than a DPS that chews crayons.

And guess what, even though the numbers aren't the same as a real DPS, it definitely will feel like you're destroying things.

[Petite]

Sorry we disagree RPR has the slowest burst timing and lowest consistent dps rate on top of that the LB is vulnerable to CC all the other classes aren't, LB is good on cluch and controlling the flow of battle though so I agree there.

I’m thinking of switching from DRG to RPR once I reach Crystal. I really like their kit, but as you said, it does have glaring flaws. These are the most prevalent to me:

• Their burst is indeed very slow and people almost always Guard against Death Warrant because of its obvious scary icon. ‘’Simply attack people after they guard’’ I hear some say already, but that's easier said than done when they usually retreat behind enemy lines afterwards.

• LB’s animation lock wastes valuable time if you pop it just a bit too far from your intended target. You end up chasing after them for 2 secs if you do.

• Communio takes forever to get out after your last Weaponskill. People can easily LOS it and/or heal themselves in the meantime. I often prefer using LB’s 5th weaponskill instead.

• Compared to other single-target damage jobs its overall output is lacking. I get that it is tanky, but the damage trade-off is still too steep.

• If you spam LB, you might set off Communio, effectively ending your LB immediately by accident.

Personally I wish SE would :
• Remove LB’s animation lock;
• Lower Communio’s cast time to at least 1s;
• Tie RPR's 10% damage buff to Death Warrant instead of Arcane Crest; (added edit)
• Put a 2s CD on Communio upon pressing LB so it doesn’t accidentally fire off;
• Add 2k damage to Grim Swathe, Lemure’s Slice as well as to Harvest Moon’s lower and top ends.

You pop it before you go in and when it breaks

It would make more sense for that 10% damage buff to be tied to Death Warrant instead though. That way, you wouldn't be forced to wait on Arcane Crest for an optimal burst, thus giving you more CD usage freedom. (added edit)

[ShinyChariot]

Personally I wish SE would :
• Remove LB’s animation lock;
• Lower Communio’s cast time to at least 1s;
• Put a 2s CD on Communio upon pressing LB so it doesn’t accidentally fire off;
• Add 2k damage to Grim Swathe, Lemure’s Slice as well as to Harvest Moon’s lower and top ends.

Movement speed during LB and buffed version of the barrier during LB would be extremely useful. If they turned the AoE bind into warrior's ST yoink chain also with bind, that would make RPR players everywhere cream faster than their stacks run out.

[Petite]

Movement speed during LB and buffed version of the barrier during LB would be extremely useful. If they turned the AoE bind into warrior's ST yoink chain also with bind, that would make RPR players everywhere cream faster than their stacks run out.

I really don't think we need to go that far. Simply removing LB's 1s animation would go a long way imo

[ShinyChariot]

It would make more sense for that 10% damage buff to be tied to Death Warrant instead though. That way, you wouldn't be forced to wait on Arcane Crest for an optimal burst, thus giving you more CD usage freedom.

When you're going in with Reaper to do damage, you're almost always going to need a barrier. There shouldn't be much reason to use it exclusively for offense or exclusively for defense. You need both at the same time, therefore it makes as much sense if not more than any other skill in it's kit.

Sometimes I use death warrant just to fish a Harvest Proc and nothing more if I'm not in a good situation to dive in and have to keep my distance/poke. If I had to force myself to make the most out of a 10% buff window, it would feel very wasteful, worse than it is currently.

Barrier on the other hand, it's exactly everything you need when you need it to do what you're going to do. By the time you teleport out and go back in, it should be off cooldown. Good reapers always keep the rhythmic beat of in and out according to their Barrier timers.

[Petite]

When you're going in with Reaper to do damage, you're almost always going to need a barrier.

I acknowledge that, but my point is there's no need to force it even if we might use both at the same time most of the time.

I don't need mitigation when I'm trying to K.O. stragglers for example. MonteCristo is absolutely right in saying it's a weird design choice, do you not agree?

[MonteCristo]

@MonteCristo
I think before we start any discussion, it's important we accept that what we want a job to be and how the job is now as the devs intended it are different things. And also just because we want a job to be a certain way, the job not being so is different from it being objectively unusable.

The key to being better at the job is to adapt, use the tools you're given, personal biases aside. People have to accept that first, and then be able to differentiate "Job is bad" with "Job is bad because it's not what I want"

RPR is some mutant hybrid that plays Tank with a ranged until they become DPS/Debuffer with two total ranged. You have to accept that. Just because you don't, doesn't mean the job is broken.

If this is true why even label it dps? Why have roles at all?

[MonteCristo]

Things will always change when you get into different tiers. Warriors can haphazardly rend into a group of 5 with no repercussions in Bronze. You do that in higher tiers, you're gonna die. Gserpent is valid when he says you have to bait out CCs before you go do anything nuts. But on different tiers, none of that makes sense because nobody even thinks about that or has to do it. And the enemy has to have an established strategy to even get the proper reactions out of them, but if they don't even have that, what are you even trying to bait? They're blind and can't smell, what's the use of dangling bait in front of something that can't react to it at all?

People can mention a billion benefits a job has in higher tiers completely missing the fact that such layers of meta may not exist in other tiers.

RPR can spam their LB and keep them in fear/bind and focused on you so your team can clean them up. It's not gonna work if your team is trash and won't capitalize. No matter what you play in this game, you're never going to turn anything around by yourself (Unless SAM) and your spammable LB that's the only melee LB that doesn't end in just one big damage. You actually have to do things. You're not getting POTG every time.

Just because your team can't take advantage of the advantages you're giving them, doesn't mean RPR is bad.

Maybe you're not a good teammate, Maybe your entire team is an uncoordinated mess.

You're never always going to get everything out of a RPR LB, that's why you can use it so often, spam that line AoE that recharges it, get some kills and assists to tack some DPS on that skill. Newsflash, sucky RPRs probably can't keep this on cooldown or don't even know it gives LB

Me personally, I always keep barrier for before I teleport in and use cone heavy into LB, I make sure my team is around me so they can pick up the pieces like pigeons, I make sure I use AoE bind first on one of them, go ham for a few seconds, if they're walking away from me, guess what? The teleport gives me movement speed, I've done enough melee damage or my timer is running out (which you should be paying attention to like MNK's Earth Reply), I teleport away and use Communio. If I feel like I'm gonna get my cheeks smashed, I accept I did enough with the Debuffs and retreat. Maybe fire off a Communio with Harvest on my way out, which does great damage as well. Then get back to charging my LB.

what tier are u playing reaper at? My highest experience before getting burnt out was gold 1 right before platinum but it sounds like we have differing experiences because i almost always get focused and thats regardless of whether or not i was successful at baiting ccs or not. Another reason we are asking for change is truly feel without bias that our LB is one of the most easily punishable LBs by far.