Melee classes are sad in CC

[Gserpent]

I really don't think we need to go that far. Simply removing LB's 1s animation would go a long way imo

And would make the LB overpowered. It's a large AOE (8yd, bigger than the crystal) that breaks guard, cannot be purified, and forces movement. On an effective 45 sec timer due to PH, that is *exceptionally* strong. 1 sec isn't a terribly long cast animation (most LBs are around .5-2 sec in cast animation), and Heavy lasts 3 sec. You can Grim Swathe, LB, and then still have about 1 sec of them being Heavy before they can move normally again. You can follow it with a Lemure's Slice to root them for 3 more sec if you really want to.

RPR LB is already overloaded. It's a lot like WHM's, honestly - except RPR can't just roll their face on the keyboard to dumpster Bronze players that don't know how to play the game like WHM can, so it's not really complained about like WHM's was and still is. But I think if any buffs are given to it, you're going to see it turning into the new BLM in high skill games. RPR is already exceptionally strong when you are against competent players and with competent teammates - guard break becomes increasingly important in those scenarios, especially when you won't have efficient voice communication like you would in 5v5 (being able to just Johnathan Joestar someone's guard attempt is invaluable in solo queue.)

I can't think of anything RPR even really needs, honestly. Its DPS is decent, its durability and team impact are huge, and it has one of the most valuable LBs in the game. I doubt you could do more than like "Plentiful Harvest does 2000 more base potency" to it without making it too strong.

[ShinyChariot]

It would make more sense for that 10% damage buff to be tied to Death Warrant instead though. That way, you wouldn't be forced to wait on Arcane Crest for an optimal burst, thus giving you more CD usage freedom.

When you're going in with Reaper to do damage, you're almost always going to need a barrier. There shouldn't be much reason to use it exclusively for offense or exclusively for defense. You need both at the same time, therefore it makes as much sense if not more than any other skill in it's kit.

Sometimes I use death warrant just to fish a Harvest Proc and nothing more if I'm not in a good situation to dive in and have to keep my distance/poke. If I had to force myself to make the most out of a 10% buff window, it would feel very wasteful, worse than it is currently.

Barrier on the other hand, it's exactly everything you need when you need it to do what you're going to do. By the time you teleport out and go back in, it should be off cooldown. Good reapers always keep the rhythmic beat of in and out according to their Barrier timers.

[Petite]

When you're going in with Reaper to do damage, you're almost always going to need a barrier.

I acknowledge that, but my point is there's no need to force it even if we might use both at the same time most of the time.

I don't need mitigation when I'm trying to K.O. stragglers for example. MonteCristo is absolutely right in saying it's a weird design choice, do you not agree?

[ShinyChariot]

I acknowledge that, but my point is there's no need to force it even if we might use both at the same time most of the time.

I don't need mitigation when I'm trying to K.O. stragglers for example. MonteCristo is absolutely right in saying it's a weird design choice, do you not agree?

I wouldn't say "Weird". That's not a word I'd use for this sort of thing because it's not weird. It is what it is and what it does make sense. You can say it isn't practical, you can say it lacks this or that utility. But "weird" is subjective and I can't agree with that. If you're hitting stragglers, you can probably use the barrier for survivability, in case they counter you, or they LB you, if you're playing at higher levels you most definitely will have stragglers fighting tooth and nail to 1v1 you or just get away, so there's not really any situation where you wouldn't need extra defensives when taking on an enemy. But again, this scenario with stragglers depends on many other factors like what job you're chasing, how much health/mp they have, how long you have to chase them, how hard they're fighting back, should you even be doing that in the first place, does it help push the crystal, etc. 10% barely makes much of a difference. What about your teleport and heavy debuff? What about harvest? 10% is fine, but getting an extra GCD in is more important. You're just wasting the barrier for when you need to get back to fighting the group, I'd even say.

I'd say the barrier is more important than the damage buff in most cases. Because Reaper is all about spamming LB and Debuffing and surviving than being a primary damage dealer than dunking on stragglers, leave that to the BRD, MNK, if you can.

If that straggler is the last one alive, then just let them go and don't risk getting killed by the revived enemy team by going too deep, if everyone's alive and they've ran away you're better off staying with your team pushing the crystal and making it a 4v5 in your favor.

It's very complicated but I'd say I'm more entitled to be weirded out by the insistence of a playstyle for RPR the devs have not intended. Maybe they'd call some things weird that the players choose to do.

[MonteCristo]

I’m thinking of switching from DRG to RPR once I reach Crystal. I really like their kit, but as you said, it does have glaring flaws. These are the most prevalent to me:

• Their burst is indeed very slow and people almost always Guard against Death Warrant because of its obvious scary icon. ‘’Simply attack people after they guard’’ I hear some say already, but that's easier said than done when they usually retreat behind enemy lines afterwards.

• LB’s animation lock wastes valuable time if you pop it just a bit too far from your intended target. You end up chasing after them for 2 secs if you do.

• Communio takes forever to get out after your last Weaponskill. People can easily LOS it and/or heal themselves in the meantime. I often prefer using LB’s 5th weaponskill instead.

• Compared to other single-target damage jobs its overall output is lacking. I get that it is tanky, but the damage trade-off is still too steep.

• If you spam LB, you might set off Communio, effectively ending your LB immediately by accident.

Personally I wish SE would :
• Remove LB’s animation lock;
• Lower Communio’s cast time to at least 1s;
• Tie RPR's 10% damage buff to Death Warrant instead of Arcane Crest; (added edit)
• Put a 2s CD on Communio upon pressing LB so it doesn’t accidentally fire off;
• Add 2k damage to Grim Swathe, Lemure’s Slice as well as to Harvest Moon’s lower and top ends.



It would make more sense for that 10% damage buff to be tied to Death Warrant instead though. That way, you wouldn't be forced to wait on Arcane Crest for an optimal burst, thus giving you more CD usage freedom. (added edit)

Agree with all of this. Really interested to see how they respond to cc adjustments come 6.2

[Bloodthrone]

Personally I wish SE would :
• Remove LB’s animation lock;
• Lower Communio’s cast time to at least 1s;
• Tie RPR's 10% damage buff to Death Warrant instead of Arcane Crest; (added edit)
• Put a 2s CD on Communio upon pressing LB so it doesn’t accidentally fire off;
• Add 2k damage to Grim Swathe, Lemure’s Slice as well as to Harvest Moon’s lower and top ends.

Not terrible ideas but I still think RPR would still lack burst speed I would still argue for Gallows and Gibbit to provide Immortal Sacrifice so we can stack faster for Plentiful Harvest.

- The animation would be nice to get rid of, but the issue is most players agree on is RPR getting CCed into the ground after Hysteria and it kind of warrants temporary CC immunity.

-Death Warrant I would like to see redesigned as a straight de-buff (or self-buff) that provides increased damage by 25%-30%.

-I would like to see Communio be an insta-cast, but I think a 1sec cast is acceptable.

-Grim Swathe doesn't feel like it needs a buff given its job is providing a de-buff and opens for Gallows and Gibbet, but I'm not against it either.

-As far as being trigger happy on Communio can be a problem, I'm ignorant to other RPR's on the matter because I'm set on firing it before I get CCed but if this will help, I'm all for it.

[ShinyChariot]

Not terrible ideas but I still think RPR would still lack burst speed I would still argue for Gallows and Gibbit to provide Immortal Sacrifice so we can stack faster for Plentiful Harvest.

It's fine now, but I'm not going to argue against a buff. So this suggestion is cool. I can see people who can't rack up enough assist/kills or use Soul Slice on cooldown to want an alternative method to generate stacks.

- The animation would be nice to get rid of, but the issue is most players agree on is RPR getting CCed into the ground after Hysteria and it kind of warrants temporary CC immunity.

It's not too bad now, you can bait CCs or read the situation to not get CCed, make sure you have full MP bar to recouperate, or time your guard during LB to absorb some, retreat and come back, not use it near too many people who can CC, make sure there are teammates that also shouldn't be CCed and try to strategically draw CCs away from them.

But if you are absolutely unable of doing any of those things, I don't think anyone's arguing against a CC immunity buff.

-Death Warrant I would like to see redesigned as a straight de-buff (or self-buff) that provides increased damage by 25%-30%.

That would be a nerf though, because Death warrant does 50% of compiled damage. and most of Reaper's kit is single target. So ???. Also, +25%, If I'm remembering correctly, is really powerful even compared to other jobs? For a job like reaper that makes the most of out quick in-out attacks, having more damage compressed into a shorter window of time with 50% compiled damage is very important for reaper. So I don't think this change makes sense.

-I would like to see Communio be an insta-cast, but I think a 1sec cast is acceptable.

I'd love an instacast Communio. Bring it on. I think it's fine, but for people that can't time their cast abilities to avoid being noticed and sniped, this would be a great change.

-Grim Swathe doesn't feel like it needs a buff given its job is providing a de-buff and opens for Gallows and Gibbet, but I'm not against it either.

I don't think anybody who likes reaper would be against a buff. Just buff everything. Everything.

-As far as being trigger happy on Communio can be a problem, I'm ignorant to other RPR's on the matter because I'm set on firing it before I get CCed but if this will help, I'm all for it.

Communio is ranged for a reason, teleport away after using bind, and use from a safe distance.

[KhudusQestir]

I'm just gonna post this here.

As people have recommended in other threads. When you see a gserpent post, just skip it as of there was no post yet

[MonteCristo]

@shinychariot Thank you for playing the job and actually coming into the conversation with tact and credibility. Now to your points.

1) Our LB on paper does sound likes its "holyshwtf" BUT here is the unfortunate and very accurate reality...the MOMENT i hit gold on rpr...enemy teams cced me to PIECES nearly every time i used my LB. They knew exactly how it worked and they knew exactly how to counter it every time. The moment we activate lb we starting glowing and become a very obvious target. Then silence/stun/sleep to death or until it runs out because the timer is much lower than in pve. Hell u can even be mid cast on communio and it doesnt go off because the timer goes out. It ends up wasted alot of the time against any enemies with half a brain to be brutally honest.

2) crest....why tf was a dps increase tied to a defensive skill. It makes me choose between activating it for dps rather than actually using it to protect myself majority of the time which feels extremely counter intuitive. It feels lazy by design, id like to have to option to protect myself or plan my already limited dps bursts without having to give up one over the other since its all baked into one skill.

3) This one is personal....quote--"It's different from the other melee, but people are determined to play it like one just because it has a red icon / You're supposed to have taken the most damage over the match, because you're planning retreats, recouping, and teleporting into battle like a tank."

Listen...i have been playing/supporting this game since 1.0 beta and i had to wait YEARS to see the job i finally wanted to play which was a darkness based dps. I had to endure paladin warrior etc until finally dark knight was announced. Then guess what? They made it a tank and i was forced yet again to play a non dps for several more years until reaper was finally released as the dps i was praying dark knight to be. I say all that to say this....people dont care about what the devs intend a job to play like. We choose our jobs based on how much we love the design and what role it is. I waited years to play a darkness based dps and after drk was a major disappointment imagine being told to play reaper as a half assed/half baked tank or ultimately suffer being written off as "unskilled" or trash...... Ironic huh?

[Gserpent]

@shinychariot Thank you for playing the job and actually coming into the conversation with tact and credibility. Now to your points.

1) Our LB on paper does sound likes its "holyshwtf" BUT here is the unfortunate and very accurate reality...the MOMENT i hit gold on rpr...enemy teams cced me to PIECES nearly every time i used my LB. They knew exactly how it worked and they knew exactly how to counter it every time. The moment we activate lb we starting glowing and become a very obvious target. Then silence/stun/sleep to death or until it runs out because the timer is much lower than in pve. Hell u can even be mid cast on communio and it doesnt go off because the timer goes out. It ends up wasted alot of the time against any enemies with half a brain to be brutally honest.

Losing an ability because you activated a cooldown too early or didn't manage your GCDs properly isn't something exclusive to RPR or even PvP. How many PLDs you see losing the second buffed Goring Blade because they popped FoF too early? You know the cast time for Communio and you know the buff duration for the Lemurum stacks... so unless you're CC'd during the last second or two (in which case the enemy was just playing intelligently and denying you your highest burst damage ability), losing a Communio cast is just you making a mistake. It happens, people make mistakes. It's not something that needs to be changed, though. PLD can lose their blades combo from LB, too. CC'ing/kiting MNK so that their combo ends before they can dump their 15k AOE is also a common thing. It's intentional design.

Okay, so you get CC'd after you LB - sucks to be you, right? But that's CC that isn't going on your teammates, and RPR isn't an ideal focus target because of the escape teleport and Crest. You can't look at things like it's a 1v5 or a 1v1 or something - it's a 5v5 game, and if you can force the enemy team to use their resources less efficiently than you are using yours, your team is coming out ahead. Remember that even if you get nothing but a single Communio out of your LB buff, you still had the 2 sec CC and guard break at the beginning of everything.

2) crest....why tf was a dps increase tied to a defensive skill. It makes me choose between activating it for dps rather than actually using it to protect myself majority of the time which feels extremely counter intuitive. It feels lazy by design, id like to have to option to protect myself or plan my already limited dps bursts without having to give up one over the other since its all baked into one skill.

Generally speaking, you are going to be using the DPS amp at the same time you're setting up Death Warrant. This requires you to get several GCDs off on the target in sequence, which tends to mean you'll be in danger during this time. If they attack you, Crest pops and gives your team a 12k heal. If they ignore you to avoid popping the shield, you're getting all the Death Warrant stacking you want. You just gotta use it at the right time and place. Both skills have the same 20 sec cooldown, so it's pretty rare that you won't be using them together.

3) This one is personal....quote--"It's different from the other melee, but people are determined to play it like one just because it has a red icon / You're supposed to have taken the most damage over the match, because you're planning retreats, recouping, and teleporting into battle like a tank."

Listen...i have been playing/supporting this game since 1.0 beta and i had to wait YEARS to see the job i finally wanted to play which was a darkness based dps. I had to endure paladin warrior etc until finally dark knight was announced. Then guess what? They made it a tank and i was forced yet again to play a non dps for several more years until reaper was finally released as the dps i was praying dark knight to be. I say all that to say this....people dont care about what the devs intend a job to play like. We choose our jobs based on how much we love the design and what role it is. I waited years to play a darkness based dps and after drk was a major disappointment imagine being told to play reaper as a half assed/half baked tank or ultimately suffer being written off as "unskilled" or trash...... Ironic huh?

That's not ironic. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. If you don't want to play a tank, then RPR isn't the class you want to play. As I and others have suggested repeatedly, if you want to play a melee DPS, your best bet is going to be a MNK if you want to be a brawler, or NIN if you want flexibility and mobility. Bitching that RPR doesn't do enough DPS or whatever, when it's not designed as a DPS, is just foolishness.