Melee classes are sad in CC

[MonteCristo]

@shinychariot Thank you for playing the job and actually coming into the conversation with tact and credibility. Now to your points.

1) Our LB on paper does sound likes its "holyshwtf" BUT here is the unfortunate and very accurate reality...the MOMENT i hit gold on rpr...enemy teams cced me to PIECES nearly every time i used my LB. They knew exactly how it worked and they knew exactly how to counter it every time. The moment we activate lb we starting glowing and become a very obvious target. Then silence/stun/sleep to death or until it runs out because the timer is much lower than in pve. Hell u can even be mid cast on communio and it doesnt go off because the timer goes out. It ends up wasted alot of the time against any enemies with half a brain to be brutally honest.

2) crest....why tf was a dps increase tied to a defensive skill. It makes me choose between activating it for dps rather than actually using it to protect myself majority of the time which feels extremely counter intuitive. It feels lazy by design, id like to have to option to protect myself or plan my already limited dps bursts without having to give up one over the other since its all baked into one skill.

3) This one is personal....quote--"It's different from the other melee, but people are determined to play it like one just because it has a red icon / You're supposed to have taken the most damage over the match, because you're planning retreats, recouping, and teleporting into battle like a tank."

Listen...i have been playing/supporting this game since 1.0 beta and i had to wait YEARS to see the job i finally wanted to play which was a darkness based dps. I had to endure paladin warrior etc until finally dark knight was announced. Then guess what? They made it a tank and i was forced yet again to play a non dps for several more years until reaper was finally released as the dps i was praying dark knight to be. I say all that to say this....people dont care about what the devs intend a job to play like. We choose our jobs based on how much we love the design and what role it is. I waited years to play a darkness based dps and after drk was a major disappointment imagine being told to play reaper as a half assed/half baked tank or ultimately suffer being written off as "unskilled" or trash...... Ironic huh?

[Gserpent]

@shinychariot Thank you for playing the job and actually coming into the conversation with tact and credibility. Now to your points.

1) Our LB on paper does sound likes its "holyshwtf" BUT here is the unfortunate and very accurate reality...the MOMENT i hit gold on rpr...enemy teams cced me to PIECES nearly every time i used my LB. They knew exactly how it worked and they knew exactly how to counter it every time. The moment we activate lb we starting glowing and become a very obvious target. Then silence/stun/sleep to death or until it runs out because the timer is much lower than in pve. Hell u can even be mid cast on communio and it doesnt go off because the timer goes out. It ends up wasted alot of the time against any enemies with half a brain to be brutally honest.

Losing an ability because you activated a cooldown too early or didn't manage your GCDs properly isn't something exclusive to RPR or even PvP. How many PLDs you see losing the second buffed Goring Blade because they popped FoF too early? You know the cast time for Communio and you know the buff duration for the Lemurum stacks... so unless you're CC'd during the last second or two (in which case the enemy was just playing intelligently and denying you your highest burst damage ability), losing a Communio cast is just you making a mistake. It happens, people make mistakes. It's not something that needs to be changed, though. PLD can lose their blades combo from LB, too. CC'ing/kiting MNK so that their combo ends before they can dump their 15k AOE is also a common thing. It's intentional design.

Okay, so you get CC'd after you LB - sucks to be you, right? But that's CC that isn't going on your teammates, and RPR isn't an ideal focus target because of the escape teleport and Crest. You can't look at things like it's a 1v5 or a 1v1 or something - it's a 5v5 game, and if you can force the enemy team to use their resources less efficiently than you are using yours, your team is coming out ahead. Remember that even if you get nothing but a single Communio out of your LB buff, you still had the 2 sec CC and guard break at the beginning of everything.

2) crest....why tf was a dps increase tied to a defensive skill. It makes me choose between activating it for dps rather than actually using it to protect myself majority of the time which feels extremely counter intuitive. It feels lazy by design, id like to have to option to protect myself or plan my already limited dps bursts without having to give up one over the other since its all baked into one skill.

Generally speaking, you are going to be using the DPS amp at the same time you're setting up Death Warrant. This requires you to get several GCDs off on the target in sequence, which tends to mean you'll be in danger during this time. If they attack you, Crest pops and gives your team a 12k heal. If they ignore you to avoid popping the shield, you're getting all the Death Warrant stacking you want. You just gotta use it at the right time and place. Both skills have the same 20 sec cooldown, so it's pretty rare that you won't be using them together.

3) This one is personal....quote--"It's different from the other melee, but people are determined to play it like one just because it has a red icon / You're supposed to have taken the most damage over the match, because you're planning retreats, recouping, and teleporting into battle like a tank."

Listen...i have been playing/supporting this game since 1.0 beta and i had to wait YEARS to see the job i finally wanted to play which was a darkness based dps. I had to endure paladin warrior etc until finally dark knight was announced. Then guess what? They made it a tank and i was forced yet again to play a non dps for several more years until reaper was finally released as the dps i was praying dark knight to be. I say all that to say this....people dont care about what the devs intend a job to play like. We choose our jobs based on how much we love the design and what role it is. I waited years to play a darkness based dps and after drk was a major disappointment imagine being told to play reaper as a half assed/half baked tank or ultimately suffer being written off as "unskilled" or trash...... Ironic huh?

That's not ironic. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. If you don't want to play a tank, then RPR isn't the class you want to play. As I and others have suggested repeatedly, if you want to play a melee DPS, your best bet is going to be a MNK if you want to be a brawler, or NIN if you want flexibility and mobility. Bitching that RPR doesn't do enough DPS or whatever, when it's not designed as a DPS, is just foolishness.

[ShinyChariot]

1) Our LB on paper does sound likes its "holyshwtf"...

Things will always change when you get into different tiers. Warriors can haphazardly rend into a group of 5 with no repercussions in Bronze. You do that in higher tiers, you're gonna die. Gserpent is valid when he says you have to bait out CCs before you go do anything nuts. But on different tiers, none of that makes sense because nobody even thinks about that or has to do it. And the enemy has to have an established strategy to even get the proper reactions out of them, but if they don't even have that, what are you even trying to bait? They're blind and can't smell, what's the use of dangling bait in front of something that can't react to it at all?

People can mention a billion benefits a job has in higher tiers completely missing the fact that such layers of meta may not exist in other tiers.

Crystal : "RPR LB can bypass guard."

Diamond: "Omg, I can see how that can be so useful."

Bronze : "WHAT'S GUARD? ENEMY TEAM DOESN'T EVEN USE GUARD? POSSIBLE TO TIME! WHAT IF I'M GUARDING TOO? I JUST IMMEDIATELY USE BLUE BUTTON WHEN I STEP ON CRYSTAL! WHO CARES? TRASH EFFECT! RPR LB TRASH!"

RPR can spam their LB and keep them in fear/bind and focused on you so your team can clean them up. It's not gonna work if your team is trash and won't capitalize. No matter what you play in this game, you're never going to turn anything around by yourself (Unless SAM) and your spammable LB that's the only melee LB that doesn't end in just one big damage. You actually have to do things. You're not getting POTG every time.

Just because your team can't take advantage of the advantages you're giving them, doesn't mean RPR is bad.

Maybe you're not a good teammate, Maybe your entire team is an uncoordinated mess.

You're never always going to get everything out of a RPR LB, that's why you can use it so often, spam that line AoE that recharges it, get some kills and assists to tack some DPS on that skill. Newsflash, sucky RPRs probably can't keep this on cooldown or don't even know it gives LB

Me personally, I always keep barrier for before I teleport in and use cone heavy into LB, I make sure my team is around me so they can pick up the pieces like pigeons, I make sure I use AoE bind first on one of them, go ham for a few seconds, if they're walking away from me, guess what? The teleport gives me movement speed, I've done enough melee damage or my timer is running out (which you should be paying attention to like MNK's Earth Reply), I teleport away and use Communio. If I feel like I'm gonna get my cheeks smashed, I accept I did enough with the Debuffs and retreat. Maybe fire off a Communio with Harvest on my way out, which does great damage as well. Then get back to charging my LB.

[MonteCristo]

Things will always change when you get into different tiers. Warriors can haphazardly rend into a group of 5 with no repercussions in Bronze. You do that in higher tiers, you're gonna die. Gserpent is valid when he says you have to bait out CCs before you go do anything nuts. But on different tiers, none of that makes sense because nobody even thinks about that or has to do it. And the enemy has to have an established strategy to even get the proper reactions out of them, but if they don't even have that, what are you even trying to bait? They're blind and can't smell, what's the use of dangling bait in front of something that can't react to it at all?

People can mention a billion benefits a job has in higher tiers completely missing the fact that such layers of meta may not exist in other tiers.

RPR can spam their LB and keep them in fear/bind and focused on you so your team can clean them up. It's not gonna work if your team is trash and won't capitalize. No matter what you play in this game, you're never going to turn anything around by yourself (Unless SAM) and your spammable LB that's the only melee LB that doesn't end in just one big damage. You actually have to do things. You're not getting POTG every time.

Just because your team can't take advantage of the advantages you're giving them, doesn't mean RPR is bad.

Maybe you're not a good teammate, Maybe your entire team is an uncoordinated mess.

You're never always going to get everything out of a RPR LB, that's why you can use it so often, spam that line AoE that recharges it, get some kills and assists to tack some DPS on that skill. Newsflash, sucky RPRs probably can't keep this on cooldown or don't even know it gives LB

Me personally, I always keep barrier for before I teleport in and use cone heavy into LB, I make sure my team is around me so they can pick up the pieces like pigeons, I make sure I use AoE bind first on one of them, go ham for a few seconds, if they're walking away from me, guess what? The teleport gives me movement speed, I've done enough melee damage or my timer is running out (which you should be paying attention to like MNK's Earth Reply), I teleport away and use Communio. If I feel like I'm gonna get my cheeks smashed, I accept I did enough with the Debuffs and retreat. Maybe fire off a Communio with Harvest on my way out, which does great damage as well. Then get back to charging my LB.

what tier are u playing reaper at? My highest experience before getting burnt out was gold 1 right before platinum but it sounds like we have differing experiences because i almost always get focused and thats regardless of whether or not i was successful at baiting ccs or not. Another reason we are asking for change is truly feel without bias that our LB is one of the most easily punishable LBs by far.