Melee classes are sad in CC

[ShinyChariot]

I acknowledge that, but my point is there's no need to force it even if we might use both at the same time most of the time.

I don't need mitigation when I'm trying to K.O. stragglers for example. MonteCristo is absolutely right in saying it's a weird design choice, do you not agree?

I wouldn't say "Weird". That's not a word I'd use for this sort of thing because it's not weird. It is what it is and what it does make sense. You can say it isn't practical, you can say it lacks this or that utility. But "weird" is subjective and I can't agree with that. If you're hitting stragglers, you can probably use the barrier for survivability, in case they counter you, or they LB you, if you're playing at higher levels you most definitely will have stragglers fighting tooth and nail to 1v1 you or just get away, so there's not really any situation where you wouldn't need extra defensives when taking on an enemy. But again, this scenario with stragglers depends on many other factors like what job you're chasing, how much health/mp they have, how long you have to chase them, how hard they're fighting back, should you even be doing that in the first place, does it help push the crystal, etc. 10% barely makes much of a difference. What about your teleport and heavy debuff? What about harvest? 10% is fine, but getting an extra GCD in is more important. You're just wasting the barrier for when you need to get back to fighting the group, I'd even say.

I'd say the barrier is more important than the damage buff in most cases. Because Reaper is all about spamming LB and Debuffing and surviving than being a primary damage dealer than dunking on stragglers, leave that to the BRD, MNK, if you can.

If that straggler is the last one alive, then just let them go and don't risk getting killed by the revived enemy team by going too deep, if everyone's alive and they've ran away you're better off staying with your team pushing the crystal and making it a 4v5 in your favor.

It's very complicated but I'd say I'm more entitled to be weirded out by the insistence of a playstyle for RPR the devs have not intended. Maybe they'd call some things weird that the players choose to do.

[MonteCristo]

You pop it before you go in and when it breaks, and your health is falling off and your MP is low (I see so many dummies dying with full MP bars, it's infuriating), or you're gonna die, you teleport away, pop heals, eat a kit, potion, until shield and tele is back up so you can take another dive. In and out, in and out. You're supposed to use it for BOTH DPS and barrier. You can walk and chew gum at the same time. It even has a neat little sound when it breaks to let you know to start worrying about getting away, how nice. RPR is awesome. Instead of being attached to what you want, you need to understand the intentions and then use it as intended. It's very useful, just not the way you want.



I understand how you feel, and I too find it puzzling the decisions devs make sometimes, but it's not too out there to where it's not too difficult to see where they're coming from.


You're not "Unskilled", this is a bit more complicated than that? I can't tell you to change how you feel about things or else I'd ask if you've tried abandoning your perceptions and expectations that you've fostered over many years.

But for your enjoyment, you'll do enough in PvP if you make the most with what you're given, if you survive, if you're alive to deal damage, if you're smart and know when to min max engagement/DPS/Health/disengagement. Manage your burst windows and compile all your abilities into an explosive moment that all synergize with each other.

You're gonna be a beast on both RPR and DRK.

And you know what the gigachads say, every job is a DPS if you play it right. Tank is just Blue DPS, Healer is green DPS.

You learn how to use what they give you, you're always going to do more damage on a tank/healer than a DPS that chews crayons.

And guess what, even though the numbers aren't the same as a real DPS, it definitely will feel like you're destroying things.

All things considered i will say that maybe my flaws come from not playing reaper like a tank but if that is truly the way then pvp may not be for me because i feel like what they sold us on reaper originally is very inconsistent to the way we are actually supposed to play the job.

[MonteCristo]

I’m thinking of switching from DRG to RPR once I reach Crystal. I really like their kit, but as you said, it does have glaring flaws. These are the most prevalent to me:

• Their burst is indeed very slow and people almost always Guard against Death Warrant because of its obvious scary icon. ‘’Simply attack people after they guard’’ I hear some say already, but that's easier said than done when they usually retreat behind enemy lines afterwards.

• LB’s animation lock wastes valuable time if you pop it just a bit too far from your intended target. You end up chasing after them for 2 secs if you do.

• Communio takes forever to get out after your last Weaponskill. People can easily LOS it and/or heal themselves in the meantime. I often prefer using LB’s 5th weaponskill instead.

• Compared to other single-target damage jobs its overall output is lacking. I get that it is tanky, but the damage trade-off is still too steep.

• If you spam LB, you might set off Communio, effectively ending your LB immediately by accident.

Personally I wish SE would :
• Remove LB’s animation lock;
• Lower Communio’s cast time to at least 1s;
• Tie RPR's 10% damage buff to Death Warrant instead of Arcane Crest; (added edit)
• Put a 2s CD on Communio upon pressing LB so it doesn’t accidentally fire off;
• Add 2k damage to Grim Swathe, Lemure’s Slice as well as to Harvest Moon’s lower and top ends.



It would make more sense for that 10% damage buff to be tied to Death Warrant instead though. That way, you wouldn't be forced to wait on Arcane Crest for an optimal burst, thus giving you more CD usage freedom. (added edit)

Agree with all of this. Really interested to see how they respond to cc adjustments come 6.2

[MonteCristo]

[/QUOTE]It's very complicated but I'd say I'm more entitled to be weirded out by the insistence of a playstyle for RPR the devs have not intended. Maybe they'd call some things weird that the players choose to do.[/QUOTE]

Respectfully i disagree...if the play-style calls for acting like a tank why not design the job to fit that role instead? FF pvp is the only game ive ever played where ive said "hey i want to be a dps" then u pick it up and play it only to find out its supposed to be played like an entirely different role. Not only is that grossly misleading but Id even go as far as to say that its completely ass backwards...

[Dimitrii]

I would love to ask the developers what makes them feel dragoon is so overpowered that it warrants or justifies the need for it to be the only melee that increases damage taken on itself during their burst and has the priveledge of having arguably the most telegraphed and avoidable LB of all melees. Im sorry but having "Horrid Roar" does not negate this glaring and unnecessary debuff unless you play nothing but Bronze players stupid enough to stack up for it. Its bad enough the job has no CC whatsoever. If dmg is literally the only thing it brings to the table then why nerf or otherwise hamper that as well?

[MonteCristo]

I would love to ask the developers what makes them feel dragoon is so overpowered that it warrants or justifies the need for it to be the only melee that increases damage taken on itself during their burst and has the priveledge of having arguably the most telegraphed and avoidable LB of all melees. Im sorry but having "Horrid Roar" does not negate this glaring and unnecessary debuff unless you play nothing but Bronze players stupid enough to stack up for it. Its bad enough the job has no CC whatsoever. If dmg is literally the only thing it brings to the table then why nerf or otherwise hamper that as well?

Gserpent incoming in 3...2...1

[ShinyChariot]

what tier are u playing reaper at?

Diamond/Crystal, fool around on Casual. And I pay attention to what other reapers are doing, their stats and numbers at the end of the game etc.

If this is true why even label it dps? Why have roles at all?

Rigid job roles are a carryover from PvE and the devs seem to have made a decision to distance themselves from the idea that jobs must absolutely do what their role dictates in PvP. Having PvP jobs being designed under the restriction of roles would really limit the possibility and variety of ideas that can be implemented into them. Homogenization is a huge point of discussion in PvE and I'm glad they didn't make a point to make it so in PvP. It's simply the preconceived notion people are unable to grasp that PvP is simply different and job roles doesn't completely dictate the individual functions of a job. This is for the better of PvP mode, although some vocal people would complain that their favorite job has gotten the short end of the stick. Again, it seems to be coming down to people wanting a job to be a certain way, and they don't like how it's been interpreted in the game, they don't want to play it as intended, they try to play what feels most natural and exciting to them personally, and naturally it doesn't work as well as playing as intended. This is completely ignoring the factors of teammates, personal skill level, the rank you're in, etc. So you can imagine how complicated it gets and how it isn't so easy as to just point at the job, and say it's done wrong.

Not that I or many others have this issue personally, but I do understand how the way the devs kept the PvE presentation of Job Roles in PvP can cause misunderstandings. The PvP jobs skirt the line of just being appropriate for their roles but not really. Extreme cases being SGE, which is just a DPS class with support spells.

I can't really say much other than "You've misunderstood, you must accept this reality as it is the current state of things".

I don't agree with PvP jobs representing roles more than their individuality. I don't want a PvP where each job is the same with a different skin because some people have the preconceived notion that they're supposed to fit in a certain box. I love the creativity and diversity that the departure from traditional roles bring to PvP.

I mean, people should just GET OVER the roles already. Quit obsessing over it, it's arbitrary, it's irrelevant. It's different, just accept that.

All things considered i will say that maybe my flaws come from not playing reaper like a tank but if that is truly the way then pvp may not be for me because i feel like what they sold us on reaper originally is very inconsistent to the way we are actually supposed to play the job.

I mean, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's steps to improving on RPR, first you learn how to play like a tank and when it gets comfortable you learn how to make risky DPS decisions and maybe you get teammates that'll let you absolutely rip and tear and have the other team running around like headless chickens constantly.

That's the issue I face most of the time when I talk with players that are attached to strict Job Roles.

Them : RPR is supposed to be a DPS!
Me : It kind of is but it also kind of plays like a tank.
Them : Then it's a TANK! Me no play TANK!
Me : Well, not really. It's still a DPS, but you just have tools to let you survive.
Them : Then RPR is DPS?!
Me : No, no, no. It's not any of those, PvP doesn't really have roles like that.
Them : Which role is RPR?!
Me : It's like a tanky, debuffer, DPS, that has ranged abilities, designed to jump in and out and build LB to spam.
Them : But RPR supposed to be DPS?!
Me :

Reaper is just reaper. Learn to tank, git gud at survival and how to choose your battles, then you can play it like a DPS.

[Dimitrii]

Gserpent incoming in 3...2...1

Dont get me wrong im not arguing that the job is bad. At worst its mediocre in high end matches. And against novices the job can seem godly. But I just dont really see what the developers vision was for DRGs skillset. I could understand and accept the lack of utility for the job if its a tradeoff for having the strongest burst or firepower of all melees. But the job does not possess the highest sustained dps compared to all the other dps, let alone melees (reaper being the obvious exception). The job does do dmg but its not miles ahead of the other dps. What about it then warrents the lack of CC abilities or justifies it being incredibly frail and squishy? In CC its skillset is so mediocre its easily replaceable with other dps and does not bring any unique or exceptionally notable contribution to the party. It cant really be considered a glass cannon with the way its presently designed considering how easy it is to out maneuver them.

[Petite]

I wouldn't say "Weird". That's not a word I'd use for this sort of thing because it's not weird. It is what it is and what it does make sense. You can say it isn't practical, you can say it lacks this or that utility. But "weird" is subjective and I can't agree with that. If you're hitting stragglers, you can probably use the barrier for survivability, in case they counter you, or they LB you, if you're playing at higher levels you most definitely will have stragglers fighting tooth and nail to 1v1 you or just get away, so there's not really any situation where you wouldn't need extra defensives when taking on an enemy. But again, this scenario with stragglers depends on many other factors like what job you're chasing, how much health/mp they have, how long you have to chase them, how hard they're fighting back, should you even be doing that in the first place, does it help push the crystal, etc. 10% barely makes much of a difference. What about your teleport and heavy debuff? What about harvest? 10% is fine, but getting an extra GCD in is more important. You're just wasting the barrier for when you need to get back to fighting the group, I'd even say.

I'd say the barrier is more important than the damage buff in most cases. Because Reaper is all about spamming LB and Debuffing and surviving than being a primary damage dealer than dunking on stragglers, leave that to the BRD, MNK, if you can.

If that straggler is the last one alive, then just let them go and don't risk getting killed by the revived enemy team by going too deep, if everyone's alive and they've ran away you're better off staying with your team pushing the crystal and making it a 4v5 in your favor.

It's very complicated but I'd say I'm more entitled to be weirded out by the insistence of a playstyle for RPR the devs have not intended. Maybe they'd call some things weird that the players choose to do.

[Gserpent]

I really don't think we need to go that far. Simply removing LB's 1s animation would go a long way imo

And would make the LB overpowered. It's a large AOE (8yd, bigger than the crystal) that breaks guard, cannot be purified, and forces movement. On an effective 45 sec timer due to PH, that is *exceptionally* strong. 1 sec isn't a terribly long cast animation (most LBs are around .5-2 sec in cast animation), and Heavy lasts 3 sec. You can Grim Swathe, LB, and then still have about 1 sec of them being Heavy before they can move normally again. You can follow it with a Lemure's Slice to root them for 3 more sec if you really want to.

RPR LB is already overloaded. It's a lot like WHM's, honestly - except RPR can't just roll their face on the keyboard to dumpster Bronze players that don't know how to play the game like WHM can, so it's not really complained about like WHM's was and still is. But I think if any buffs are given to it, you're going to see it turning into the new BLM in high skill games. RPR is already exceptionally strong when you are against competent players and with competent teammates - guard break becomes increasingly important in those scenarios, especially when you won't have efficient voice communication like you would in 5v5 (being able to just Johnathan Joestar someone's guard attempt is invaluable in solo queue.)

I can't think of anything RPR even really needs, honestly. Its DPS is decent, its durability and team impact are huge, and it has one of the most valuable LBs in the game. I doubt you could do more than like "Plentiful Harvest does 2000 more base potency" to it without making it too strong.