Please let us queue with our friends in CC

[GordonGeeko]

Well since you want to compare anecdotes.

Here is the stats of someone I know who won Rival Wings 74 times in a row with no wintrading.

https://imgur.com/a/2rnmqyP

Do you want to guess if they were in a premade ?

[KhudusQestir]

Well since you want to compare anecdotes.

Here is the stats of someone I know who won Rival Wings 74 times in a row with no wintrading.

https://imgur.com/a/2rnmqyP

Do you want to guess if they were in a premade ?

.... are you just trying to argue with me or are we having a calm discussion about this?

Let's please be civil in my thread. Otherwise, I'm just going to ignore you.
I hope I'm wrong but if not and you're gonna give me attitude then I'll just not take you seriously and just let you bump my thread and talk around you. I'm here to be serious, not get into meaningless fights.

Now if you have a point, please be more elaborate about it, and don't make me waste my post with a silly 'yes or no' question when I'm limited on them. :/

[GordonGeeko]

I'm being civil, I'm just proving to you that there are players that are much, much better than others and that will result in an overwhelming win rate. That was over 74 games not one game with 4 friends of unknown skill level.

That's Rival Wings, so that's 24v24 and that's different than CC, sure, but even with 20 "randoms", the odds can still be tilted this heavily. Why wouldn't that hold in a smaller scale mode ?

In a PVP community this small, it just makes those players and teams stand out much more. A team-based competitive system is doomed to fail.

And no, I've not played Team Ranked Feast, I've started to play PVP after they ended Team Seasons, but I heard several times over that it was a wintrading mess pitting teams of different ranks together due to a lack of players. I can get back to you with more details if you want.

.... are you just trying to argue with me or are we having a calm discussion about this?

Let's please be civil in my thread. Otherwise, I'm just going to ignore you.
I hope I'm wrong but if not and you're gonna give me attitude then I'll just not take you seriously and just let you bump my thread and talk around you. I'm here to be serious, not get into meaningless fights.

Now if you have a point, please be more elaborate about it, and don't make me waste my post with a silly 'yes or no' question when I'm limited on them. :/

[Vatom]

I think duos and team ques would be a good idea for causal since there isn't really a point to it anyway
It makes losing and winning just all the more easier to stomach

[Nikoto]

I very much would like duo queues at the least. Me and my friend love PvP but neither of us are playing it because if we want to play together we need to queue sync, which is just dirty and not fun.

[KhudusQestir]

I'm being civil

Alright, I'll take your word and apologize then.

In a PVP community this small, it just makes those players and teams stand out much more. A team-based competitive system is doomed to fail.

You know... considering how popular and a massive amount of players play FFXIV; if the PvP is small, doesn't that mean there's a problem with it and it's not being fun enough? People LOVE to PvP because people LOVE to get competitive. So that sounds like a game flaw to me. Also, the whole point of a ranking system is to set players of a certain skill to go up against other players of a certain skill. It's why I brought it up. So if skill is such a problem, simply use the ranking system as other games do. They already do that for CC ranking so if people care so much in casual, do the same in casual. It's a really easy fix without having to punish other players.

[GordonGeeko]

Well I have my own views on why PVP keeps failing at this game and I really don't think it has anything to do with the ability to play with friends. Being able to play with friends has historically always led to a wintrading and non-competitive scene. Speaking from an NA perspective at least. I have absolutely no desire to see that return. It's more fun right now to play with friends in Frontlines and Rival Wings, sure, but there's a reason the number of people being able to play together has been reduced to 4 and that your team is randomized.

There are competitive players who love to PVP, I'm one of them, but I just don't think the competitive PVP scene is large enough to support a ranking system that accurately reflects your skill level, especially not a team-based one. You already see that a lot of CC players are the same people who used to play Feast. Not a lot of new blood in the Top 100.

Feast queue times used to be extremely bad for some classes and after a certain point, you could not find any games below the highest rank. And at higher rank, you would just keep running into the same people over and over. That's why I think they made it so Crystal players could not derank. That's better for queue pops but it creates such an imbalance of skill between someone at Crystal 0 and someone that got to Crystal 5000 (in a legit way).

Frontlines pretty much only pops due to people queuing for XP, not exactly because people love to PVP. Rival Wings was dead unless the community organized events.

I thought a new mode could bring more people to the ranked scene and it did, but they keep making decisions to ensure the mode dies a quick death :

1) Very minimal moderation and the sentiment that reporting is meaningless means that wintrading/people throwing games is still very much a thing. There's heavy suspicion regarding the validity of some rank 1s and top 30s.
2) No deranking at higher ranks makes people feel like the game is more RNG based off what teammates you get rather than skill-based.
3) The rewards are very bland.
4) You have to not play ranked to get the lower rewards/achievements if you achieved a higher rank the prior season.

I really feel like fixing these things will do a much better job than allowing you to play with friends. That would just create more problems and drama.

[Kukajoo]

I don't see a problem with this so long as pre-made's are quarantined to their own queues, I don't think it would work out letting them play ranked though unless they also have their own leaderboards separate from the solo q ones.

[GordonGeeko]

I feel like the current custom-mode system is fine for people who want to play together.

There's unofficial tournaments all over and probably more official tournaments coming. People do skirmishes between each other from time to time.

A dedicated team mode casual queue would most likely die. Before its demise, nothing prevented you from making a PVP team and queuing up Team Feast. You would have just waited endlessly without any pop.

Are there more people playing CC than Feast ? Absolutely. Would a Team Casual mode survive ? I highly doubt it. So you'd have to make teams part of the regular queue and then it creates an imbalance.

Also, to prove how wintrading would work. Let's say they put team casual queues in for 6.2, just in time for the new series. Here's what would happen : 10 people would team up together at odd hours, let's say 4 am. They would take turns throwing matches by not stopping the crystal. Matches would take about 1min30. They'd get all their series maxed after 2 hours, get all their Garo mounts and achievements. Or they would just run it over and over to cap their weekly tomestones in an hour or get XP.

[KhudusQestir]

Being able to play with friends has historically always led to a wintrading and non-competitive scene.

Where do you get the idea of this history other than FFXIV?

I just don't think the competitive PVP scene is large enough to support a ranking system that accurately reflects your skill level, especially not a team-based one. You already see that a lot of CC players are the same people who used to play Feast. Not a lot of new blood in the Top 100.

PvP not large enough because it's not fun enough.

And at higher rank, you would just keep running into the same people over and over. That's why I think they made it so Crystal players could not derank.

I don't think you've seen how ranking works in other games. There's a gap of skill levels and when you lose your rank gets lower so the balance range actually changes on you depending on your winning and losing streak. It's never been like that even in small PvP games like Gundam Battle Operations 2. It has a very similar system like this and the queue time to get into a match isn't that long and is a MUCH smaller PvP game.

As for your reason why they possibly don't derank people at a certain rank? I think that's a terrible idea and you just announced why by saying the queue time increases at that point.