Has anyone quit healing?

[QooEr]

I remember not so long ago during Stormblood, debating with friends about how to improve SCH, and new exciting things we could get in the future, we wanted a more DPS buff oriented fairy. Selene was basically that with the speed buff, but things like DH raise, mana regen, etc etc.

The ShB media tour worried us, and when the expac dropped, it was a real disaster.
I guess it's a bit funny, that we wanted a 3rd fairy, but we ended up losing one. Or the point of having one even (give me my pet bar back ffs)

i remember before shb musing about what ast would get next. "wouldn't it be cool if next expansion they let us stack royal road effects, or maybe use a card without burning royal road?"

when i saw the changes i thought it was some cruel joke

[Renathras]

I understand your posts better than you'd want to admit.
Any concept that forces any of the healer jobs into a position where they will be of a higher skill floor than the others would be generally unacceptable to the developers due to accessibility concerns, and any concept that puts any of the healer jobs into a position where they will have a lower skill ceiling and a lower skill floor than the others, regardless of intent, would inevitably lead to all of the jobs having their skill ceilings and floors brought down to match.
Your "one true compromise" is a path that we've already gone down. We're here. We don't want to be here, therefore your proposal isn't the best for what we're looking for, at least as far as I see it.
I'm sad that this hurts your feelings, but that's where we are.

"Hysterical ishkabibble"?

Clearly you do not.

Here's the reality:

We keep what we have now (which you don't like), or we get SB-lite - which is what I'm proposing - that you seem to ALSO not like. But that's tough, because THOSE are your two options. I'm sad that this hurts your feelings, but that's where we are.

There is no world where these Devs are going to give you something else.

[Renathras]

"Um akshually the devs said they don't want to add more damage buttons, also ten years ago two wow healers had pretty simple rotations. Checkmate."

Seriously? You guys suck at even basic reading comprehension or understanding arguments.

Or you love caricatures and strawman fallacies.

Or both.

Be better.

The devs also said they wouldn't put every raid buff on two minutes and that happened. Giving healers buttons they used to have (that are still in the game's code btw) is infinitely more likely than reassessing every encounter's design. Currently in wow, the only healer with a dot and nuke is resto druid which heals almost exclusively via HoTs. Managing HoTs when damage is constantly going out on the entire party is occupying enough to justify only having a DoT and wrath. Mistweaver has what amounts to a 1-2-3 combo with a handful of dps cooldowns. Disc priest has (depending on what talents you pick) up to 8 or 9 damage buttons. Holy priest has at least 4 and i've only played that around level 25. Resto shaman has at least 4 at only level 25. Holy paladin has four or five depending on what you count as part of its rotation. This is in a game with literally constant lethal damage going out. Giving scholar three dots, giving astro doublecast from pvp and declunking cards, giving WHM old fluid aura, seraph strike and aero 3, and fixing toxicon and phlegma isn't so radical a change that it will make healing impossible or cause unneeded wipes. It'll just make the role more engaging.

Oh, it's true they CAN change their minds.

Based on what they did in SB from HW, in ShB from SB, and in EW from ShB with healers, what makes you think that's likely in this case?

EDIT:

Ah, we get to your actual point- for all your bellyaching about personal attacks, you Sylphies always like accusing me of not being a "real" healer, of being just a DPS who wants fast queues.

Honestly? I have no idea what the hell a "Sylphies" is, and I genuinely don't care.

I think that you likely would be more happy playing a RDM with Vermedica, yes. But I didn't accuse you of not being a "real" healer. Nor is that "(my) actual point".

How can ALL OF YOU GUYS be this bad at basic reading comprehension?

I've played support roles in nearly every RPG, MMO or otherwise, that I've played since childhood. You know what healers spend most of their time doing in those RPGs? It's not healing.

I've played HEALERS in nearly every RPG, MMO or otherwise, that I've played since childhood. It IS healing. The only exception are games that have very limited spell slots/use (e.g. D&D), in which case you spend a lot of time doing the equivalent of auto-attacking.

This is yet more "HeALeRs ShOULd HeAL onLy, it's in the name!"

Does the term "Strawman Fallacy" mean anything to you? I believe healers should have damage and buff and debuff tools to use when healing isn't necessary. Maybe you should ask my oppinion on things instead of telling me what my opinion is?

Healers are fun because they allow you to multitask and make impactful decisions.

Which does not require that to be DOING DAMAGE at all.

Nerfing oGCDs to oblivion to "force" healers to spam GCD heals like they're "supposed" to makes them *slightly* less boring, but not significantly so.

And yet that's the main difference between EW healers and ARR healers (at least on WHM), and I've had someone here tell me that WHM in ARR was "dozens" of times more complex.

It's bad. Game. Design.

It's BAD. ENCOUNTER. DESIGN; I agree. But clearly not BAD. GAME. DESIGN.

You don't LIKE it, and I get that. But that's a different metric.

[LeonKeyh]

It's amazing what happens whenever the troll doesn't post for a while. We create Pariahs of people who agree with us on the problem but not the solution and refuse to discuss the solutions. Why the hell do people always need to find "an enemy"?

Increasing DPS complexity fixes the problem but also DOES create a merely "slightly different" DPS with quicker queues. Come on now, how could everyone not see and agree with that?

Seems less likely to me that they would increase the amount of healing required in encounter design personally, but doing that would make things more interesting. Only problem is that it would cause quite a bit of needed rebalancing I feel like.

I'd rather see "Healer" be replaced with "Support" and give them buffs like AST has. This would allow them to actually create decent support jobs without needing to be shackled by how it interacts within the DPS role personally, but can't we all just agree with getting something better?

[Irenia]

I see no reason why every healer needs to have indirect buffs as their main form of combat; it'd be fine to have a scale between "Aggro Healer" and "Buff healer". Both increase damage in different ways, since damage buffs are just damage skills with potencies proportional to party performance.

[Absurdity]

Seems less likely to me that they would increase the amount of healing required in encounter design personally, but doing that would make things more interesting. Only problem is that it would cause quite a bit of needed rebalancing I feel like.

Depending on how much the healing requirement is increased it would certainly also require a rework of the actual healing tools.



Right now healers MP economy is not designed for constant GCD healing, nor are the healing kits actually all that interesting when you look a bit closer.

A majority of our heals are just Cure 2, instant cast Cure 2, oGCD Cure 2, oGCD Cure 2 x2 or x5, aoe Cure 2 and oGCD aoe Cure 2. They are mostly just fire and forget heals with very little, if any, interaction between each healing ability.


Funnily enough the absolutely terrible Stormblood lilly system would be a lot more interesting in a game where GCD healing is common.

[LeonKeyh]

Depending on how much the healing requirement is increased it would certainly also require a rework of the actual healing tools.



Right now healers MP economy is not designed for constant GCD healing, nor are the healing kits actually all that interesting when you look a bit closer.

A majority of our heals are just Cure 2, instant cast Cure 2, oGCD Cure 2, oGCD Cure 2 x2 or x5, aoe Cure 2 and oGCD aoe Cure 2. They are mostly just fire and forget heals with very little, if any, interaction between each healing ability.


Funnily enough the absolutely terrible Stormblood lilly system would be a lot more interesting in a game where GCD healing is common.

Agreed, and that was what I was alluding to with the need for rebalancing. It would require faster resource generation (MP and Lilies/Addersgall and lower cooldowns on Aetherflow and CD heals) potency tweaks to all of the above, possibly charges added to some of the cooldown abilities that don't have them yet. There would need to be a lot of changes to go that route, changes that _I_ don't think SE is capable of.

That DOESN'T mean that would be a bad solution though, if they do it right. It just seems like they're less likely to mess up making DPS kits more complex since they've shown their ability to make some decent, fairly unique DPS kits.

If they would do a complete rework to the role, I would just rather they give all healers support skills like AST has, but then again, that removes AST's uniqueness, so every answer has its issues. But still fewer issues than what we have today.

[MintnHoney]

Here's the reality:

Oh, I guess you're not done.
Neat.

Between you and your alts (or perhaps your "friends," if you're going to call them that, or just happy little accidents if you're going to claim no one knows each other), it doesn't look like you're getting anywhere with convincing anyone on anything about your singular views, however. Good luck with that.

[ty_taurus]

In order to create a support-oriented healer who spends less time DPSing and more time buffing/healing, I proposed before a shift in AST's design that basically does the following:

- Splits Draw into 2 types of Draw actions, 1 that draws offensive cards, and 1 that draws support cards. Both have 2 charges, are independent of one another, and playing the card replaces that respective draw action. Both drawing and playing the card generates a stack on you to a max of 6.
- Celestial Intersection grants a temporary buff to you or an ally that allows the buffed ally's spells and weaponskills to trigger 1 of your stacks to perform an additional attack emanating from you that deals the same damage as your current malefic, essentially making your card draws and plays DPS neutral in addition to their effects.
- Card effects do not activate instantly. Instead, they sit on the person you've placed them on until activated. You can only have 1 offensive and 1 supportive card on a player at a given time.
- Celestial River and Celestial Opposition are minor AoE heals that activate offensive cards or supportive cards respectively (river for offensive, opposition for supportive), essentially making the card you've played an additional affect on the heal. (i.e. Celestial River was a 250 potency AoE heal and would activate The Balance, The Arrow, and The Spear on anyone you've played those cards on, and the same for Opposition on the other cards). This made planning and triggering buff effects more strategic, especially the supportive cards.

Overall, the idea here was to give AST GCD tools that would replace a lot of your direct DPS in order to simulate a more passive-focused healer so that people who don't want to be DPSing 80%-100% of the time with their GCDs have a healer whose playstyle respects the importance of DPS contribution, and that's really the key factor here. The content of XIV demands healer DPS contributions as often as they currently are. We can create a passive healer, but they MUST contribute still. They just need to be able to do that indirectly.

[Silverbane]

Not replying to me,

Between you and your alts (or perhaps your "friends," if you're going to call them that, or just happy little accidents if you're going to claim no one knows each other), it doesn't look like you're getting anywhere with convincing anyone on anything about your singular views, however. Good luck with that.

Gotta love how some of the whiners here just can't believe there's more than one person posting to the forums who enjoys playing healers and doesn't agree with them. Oh, and they also can't believe that anyone who disagrees with them isn't a troll; they literally can't imagine that anyone could sincerely enjoy being a healer as the role is today.

And why not? Because they don't enjoy it, and they learned as a child that their favorite flavor of ice cream was, as an immutable fact, everyone's favorite flavor, and anyone who claimed otherwise was a troll. That's part of their core personality, I think: the core personality that, absent some terrible trauma, doesn't change after adolescence.

These whiners will never be convinced that anything they say is wrong: they are too emotionally invested in their healer victimhood. So when they can't muster a rational response to someone who disagrees with them, they resort to name-calling, distortion, and lies about people: since they can't refute the message, they desperately need to impugn the messenger. [Edit: as they indeed continue to try to do in their replies to this post.]

At one point, one of them attacked me by cluelessly claiming that the character you see in my forum profile didn't exist. Talk about stupid: of course it exists, because that info is generated by the forums, not me. But there's no lie too blatant for some of these whiners.

But that's fine. They aren't the intended audience, not for me anyway. See, a fundamental principle behind the right to free speech is that in an unfettered exchange, truth will eventually win out. So it made my day when one of them admitted they are afraid other people would believe what I post.
That's what these whiners are afraid of.