Glamour Question

[Iscah]

I really thought it was a coding issue, can only glamour the same thing you can equip or whatever. I no longer think that's the case and I feel each piece is coded separately as glamour, mostly because of a bug that ended up happening in shadowbringers. Certain jewelry items (ones I saw were High Allagan and GARO earrings) could not be glamoured to certain classes despite them being equipable by ALL classes.

Were you wearing your level 1 EXP-boosting earring? It won't take any glamours except other level 1 pieces.

[Flaws]

What an original argument.

Have you ever told a player they "look the part", or receive likewise? Are you at least aware players get such compliments? What that is, is job/role identity, and the admiration of it.

Bikini tanks don't desire to look the part. There is nothing wrong with that, but they also don't look like a tank. The reason we are able to make that distinction is because of job/role identity. What players like the one you quoted are pointing out, is that they would prefer for those lines to not be blurred further. Can you comprehend that?

What's stopping you from looking the part if you only have more freedom to put on anything you want and not less? Who's to say that you can't look the part with some pieces from other roles's gear which would objectively make your glamour look even more the part than without having that freedom? I fail to understand why people still try to push this role/job identity idea as an excuse when it's been thrown out the window several expansions ago. I'll always give the Nier raids gear as a prime example. You mean to tell me that WAR shouldn't be allowed to put on the Striking chest piece from The Puppet's Bunker (the sleeveless coat) even though it would literally make more sense than the full sleeve one that tanks get? Thats just one of hundreds of examples.

The ONLY gear that should MAYBE be exempt from this is AF gear which was specifically designed for ONE job with actual JOB identity in mind. None of the other gear is designed with any specific job in mind and thats why newer jobs like GNB and DNC for example remain cucked because most of the previously existing gear for their role doesn't match that job aesthetic whatsoever, not even remotely. Other pieces from other jobs would fit way better but they can't put it on. You are literally preventing jobs from looking the part by having this restriction in the game and thats where the problem is for most of us.

[Gemina]

What's stopping you from looking the part if you only have more freedom to put on anything you want and not less? Who's to say that you can't look the part with some pieces from other roles's gear which would objectively make your glamour look even more the part than without having that freedom? I fail to understand why people still try to push this role/job identity idea as an excuse when it's been thrown out the window several expansions ago.

It's never been thrown out the window. Like ever. If it was thrown out the window, we wouldn't even be having this discussion now would we? What you mean to say is you want it thrown out the window. You believe that just because playful glamours are released, it defeats all purpose to continue to have restrictions on the glamour system. Players who are against lifting restrictions, or have an idea why they are in place have listed reasons from north to south. They cannot be faulted when those who want the restrictions to go away mulch their statements into reasonings based on identity to be easily ignored.

The ONLY gear that should MAYBE be exempt from this is AF gear which was specifically designed for ONE job with actual JOB identity in mind.

The dev team doesn't need to be told what gear should and shouldn't have restrictions. This is totally up to them, and they can place those restrictions for any reason they deem fit. Many of the players who are for the restrictions are glamour chasers as well. They can and do have overlapping limitations and frustrations. This doesn't change their views though because they know and understand that the devs don't ever place restrictions on gear to purposely grieve them and/or deliberately limit their glamour pool.

[anhaato]

They shouldn't remove restrictions because my immersion should come at everyone else's expense!

[Flaws]

It's never been thrown out the window. Like ever. If it was thrown out the window, we wouldn't even be having this discussion now would we? What you mean to say is you want it thrown out the window. You believe that just because playful glamours are released, it defeats all purpose to continue to have restrictions on the glamour system. Players who are against lifting restrictions, or have an idea why they are in place have listed reasons from north to south. They cannot be faulted when those who want the restrictions to go away mulch their statements into reasonings based on identity to be easily ignored.


The dev team doesn't need to be told what gear should and shouldn't have restrictions. This is totally up to them, and they can place those restrictions for any reason they deem fit. Many of the players who are for the restrictions are glamour chasers as well. They can and do have overlapping limitations and frustrations. This doesn't change their views though because they know and understand that the devs don't ever place restrictions on gear to purposely grieve them and/or deliberately limit their glamour pool.

You and I both know that's not true. There is no role identity when you have to design gear that would, for example, work on both PLD and GNB where both roles are tanks but they have vastly different aesthetics. Or MCH and DNC. It is simply impossible and they've proven it with how they've been designing gear. There are multiple examples of the devs violating their own rules of role restricted gear with both NPCs that wear a mix of gear from different roles + re-using gear from previous expansions but only slightly recolored for an entirely different job. There are no valid excuses. Unless you genuinely mean to tell me that slight coloration differences on the exact same gear model is what sets them apart for different jobs. Gear that is already dyeable most of the time anyway.

The devs of any game should always take player feedback into account first thing because thats how games evolve and become better. We don't want another WoW on our hands, do we? The vast majority of players here are against these restrictions and the devs should take note. If you don't believe me I suggest you look at the other thread about it made by Siddiax.

[Lihtleita]

everyone loves job identity until someone points out that maiming and fending share 90 percent of the same models with a shoulder pad removed

[Siddiax]

A lot of gear remains locked to save time.
You're increasing the workload seven fold, with the same amount of resources. No go my friend. No go.

You're just speculating. I don't get whats with people against the removal of glamour restrictions and acting like they to know how everything works behind the scenes.

It's never been thrown out the window. Like ever. If it was thrown out the window, we wouldn't even be having this discussion now would we? What you mean to say is you want it thrown out the window. You believe that just because playful glamours are released, it defeats all purpose to continue to have restrictions on the glamour system.

Have you ever actually seen the sets in this game ? 99% of them have no role defining features and are sometimes heavier or lighter versions of the same type of gear. Whether it be the Aglaia or Asphodelos sets there's nothing that defines a role or a job's identity in them.

Not just that, but why do we already have DOZENS of cases where restrictions don't matter ? We've also already received a non-role restriced version of the Sky Pirate sets. Even if we forget about Bikini tanks and all the silly outfits, just the fact that every job and role can use any of the Mogstation sets is enough. We're long past "just ignore the exceptions" when every other set they release is a real-life casual outfit which is used by 90% of the playerbase.

I just fail to see how letting us mix and match striking and maiming gear is so incredibly immersion breaking. In fact, you're literally against giving players more freedom in creating immersive outfits.

[Gemina]

You and I both know that's not true. There is no role identity when you have to design gear that would, for example, work on both PLD and GNB where both roles are tanks but they have vastly different aesthetics. Or MCH and DNC. It is simply impossible and they've proven it with how they've been designing gear. There are multiple examples of the devs violating their own rules of role restricted gear with both NPCs that wear a mix of gear from different roles + re-using gear from previous expansions but only slightly recolored for an entirely different job. There are no valid excuses. Unless you genuinely mean to tell me that slight coloration differences on the exact same gear model is what sets them apart for different jobs. Gear that is already dyeable most of the time anyway.

I don't know how many times I have to explain that none of this has anything to do with restrictions. I haven't used identity in my arguments once, yet you do exactly what I said in my last post, and throw everything in a blender so all you see and hear is job identity. Furthermore, when you're arguing that restrictions limit your options and then proceed to mention all the options you have, it kind of has the reverse effect if your intention, and just makes you sound entitled.

The devs of any game should always take player feedback into account first thing because thats how games evolve and become better. We don't want another WoW on our hands, do we? The vast majority of players here are against these restrictions and the devs should take note. If you don't believe me I suggest you look at the other thread about it made by Siddiax.

Good grief. Just because the dev team doesn't grant every single request doesn't mean they don't take player feedback into account. They've released restrictions on many items of gear, and just released Lyse's outfit and hairstyle that has been in very high demand. And this is one big reason why I wish they did not lift restrictions. It's like apologizing to a mob. You know all that gear you keep referring to that are just re-releases of previous sets but for different roles? They do that BECAUSE of player feedback.

I know it sucks to hear the truth when it goes against all your hopes and dreams of a restriction-free glamour system. You'll continue to think it's about identity retention though, and bikini tanks remove all reason to keep restrictions, so I don't really see much point continuing. Do you?

[Gemina]

You're just speculating. I don't get whats with people against the removal of glamour restrictions and acting like they to know how everything works behind the scenes.

And you never will. You are correct that I am not there behind the scenes. Putting aside that I have a BA in computer science and coded for 15 years, I also don't need to be there. I don't need to be because I don't view the dev team like this group of arseholes out to make their own playerbase miserable. I know that they work insane hours and sacrifice much of their livelihoods to bring us this game. I see and know that there attempts to satiate their rabid players are futile as they will always find something to gripe about.

Have you ever actually seen the sets in this game ? 99% of them have no role defining features and are sometimes heavier or lighter versions of the same type of gear. Whether it be the Aglaia or Asphodelos sets there's nothing that defines a role or a job's identity in them.

Yeah. What's your point? Identity has nothing to do with why those sets having restrictions. Would it make you happier if those sets were more designed to their respective roles? I was under the impression that raid sets were themed for the raid, not the game's jobs.

Not just that, but why do we already have DOZENS of cases where restrictions don't matter ? We've also already received a non-role restriced version of the Sky Pirate sets. Even if we forget about Bikini tanks and all the silly outfits, just the fact that every job and role can use any of the Mogstation sets is enough. We're long past "just ignore the exceptions" when every other set they release is a real-life casual outfit which is used by 90% of the playerbase.

I just fail to see how letting us mix and match striking and maiming gear is so incredibly immersion breaking. In fact, you're literally against giving players more freedom in creating immersive outfits.

If you really look at you're saying, it is actually your immersion that is breaking by not being able to mix and match sets of gear. And if you were to just own up to that instead of projecting what you feel is a flawed mentality onto others, then it would be easier to take such arguments more seriously. As I said before, those who are against restrictions being lifted deal with the very same limitations you do. The difference is they don't gripe about it, and make futile attempts to rationalize with you why they feel restrictions should remain. They are not complaining about restrictions and immersion breaking. You guys are.

[Flaws]

I don't know how many times I have to explain that none of this has anything to do with restrictions. I haven't used identity in my arguments once, yet you do exactly what I said in my last post, and throw everything in a blender so all you see and hear is job identity. Furthermore, when you're arguing that restrictions limit your options and then proceed to mention all the options you have, it kind of has the reverse effect if your intention, and just makes you sound entitled.


Good grief. Just because the dev team doesn't grant every single request doesn't mean they don't take player feedback into account. They've released restrictions on many items of gear, and just released Lyse's outfit and hairstyle that has been in very high demand. And this is one big reason why I wish they did not lift restrictions. It's like apologizing to a mob. You know all that gear you keep referring to that are just re-releases of previous sets but for different roles? They do that BECAUSE of player feedback.

I know it sucks to hear the truth when it goes against all your hopes and dreams of a restriction-free glamour system. You'll continue to think it's about identity retention though, and bikini tanks remove all reason to keep restrictions, so I don't really see much point continuing. Do you?

Absolutely, I do. None of what you've said makes any sense. You clearly have no solid arguments against it. You literally talked about people getting compliments for looking the part originally which is clearly all about identity. Also, are you seriously going to say that having a few reused models for different jobs is the same as having no restrictions? Where are you even going with this? "All the options you have" like thats anywhere near what all of us are asking for. And no they absolutely don't do that because of player feedback, they do it because they don't want to dedicate resources to create new gear for every role in every new duty. How could you possibly arrive at that conclusion is beyond me. No one has ever asked for re-use of models, if anything we'd ask for the opposite.

Also, them releasing items on the Mogstation for real money is not in any way related to this conversation. Just because I said that devs should listen to their playerbase doesn't mean that I'm claiming that they don't listen to us at all, does it? You said that "the devs don't need to be told...". Yes, they do, because thats how games get better.

I honestly don't understand what reason you could possibly have to still be arguing against this when there are no good arguments against it. Not from an identity perspective, not from a coding perspective, none whatsoever. It feels like you're just going against it for the sake of going against it and there is no actual purpose to it. You're arguing against having more options which is the most bizarre thing a player of a video game can do.

Edit: From reading your other reply to Siddiax its beginning to sound like you just have some weird, twisted and skewed view of the community and you're against anyone who asks for any changes to the game regardless of how good or bad they might be. I hate to break it to you but giving good suggestions with good arguments that make sense and will objectively only be a net positive for every player of the game is not being a "rabid player" who "always finds something to gripe about". Its called giving feedback so that the game can improve, like I'm sure we all want it to.