They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

[Padudu]

It can't be understated both how wrong this is and how much the developers disagree with this at a fundemental level based on past interviews and answers.
Before you start typing out some poor comparison to item level or duty completion, no those are not the same as gating based on a 3rd party tool or needing to do x damage or kick.

Except on some levels you already have "gatekeeping" implemented, i.e ilevels, there is always going to be gatekeeping involved at a minimum. And sorry, but for savage content, you do need a minimum of gatekeeping. How are they not the same lol, at the very least, your ilevel is an indicator of you having the least bit of competency to complete the content. If they don't want the game to become a "dps or kick", then don't design the game that way.

I invite you to go to any pf p3s prog party, have fun getting stuck at adds, if they bother making it past darkened fire. P3S has tight dps checks, which means, if you are not passing you are wiping the party.

[Saraide]

It can't be understated both how wrong this is and how much the developers disagree with this at a fundemental level based on past interviews and answers.
Before you start typing out some poor comparison to item level or duty completion, no those are not the same as gating based on a 3rd party tool or needing to do x damage or kick.

On a fundamental level there exist DPS checks in savage and extreme fights, if your party cant clear them then dps is lacking. They design the game in a way that everyone has to contribute to that dps check. So the devs are very intentionally gatekeeping low dps people out of clearing. If one person lags behind everyone else and is preventing 7 other people from clearing than they should leave and work to improve their own skill.
I'm bringing up ilvl and duty completetion because they are by far the more useful metrics for PF. Nobody cares if you can hit x amount of dps on a target dummy, but when extreme and savage are relevant ilvl and duty complete gates ensure that you have atleast some semblance of an understanding, atleast enough to not hold up 7 other people permanently. This nightmare scenario yoship described in that one infamous lifeletter is an unrealistic one because ilvl and duty complete already do a way better job for way less effort.

Setting clear expectations is a healthy thing. If you pair up people who are looking for fast clears with people who are looking to prog the first mechanic, neither is going to be happy. This will only lead to frustration.

[Xtrasweettea]

It can't be understated both how wrong this is and how much the developers disagree with this at a fundemental level based on past interviews and answers.
Before you start typing out some poor comparison to item level or duty completion, no those are not the same as gating based on a 3rd party tool or needing to do x damage or kick.

If the developers disagreed with gatekeeping by using non-SE implemented methods found within the game, the developers should have just made all content available only through DF with no PF option. They should have never created PF as an option at all.

As long as PF is in the game, people will use gatekeeping beyond the minimal the game provides. It has nothing to do with being mean or cruel. It has to do with time.

Time is the one currency we cannot get paid back. So, if I create a PF and have to invest a non-refundable currency, I am going to mitigate risk of the loss of that currency spent in order to do this event.

If the game only gives a non-satisfactory amount of risk mitigation tools, I am going to seek or create my own tools or processes that will help me reduce risk. That might be requiring me to look at your historical logs, asking for several references you know that know you did the fight, Materia check, gear check, etc.

Not all PFs are the same on top of that. Two PFs for the same savage fight could be different. One could be for “first time clears.” The other could be for “farming only.” Both of those PFs will have different expectations and gatekeeping methods. You can guarantee that the “farming” PF will be looking at logs. They are not going to take the word of someone who claims that they are on “farm.”

All because time is the one currency SE development cannot program into your life. Time is a third-party currency that drives the use of the third-party tools and methodology.

[Semirhage]

Aren't you the same guy going around threads calling people toxic casuals?

That would be me.

Because "knowledge is bad and we shouldn't have it. People might be mean! Anyway here's why people who gather knowledge should be banned" is a ludicrous set of positions, and this allergy to learning is the worst part of FFXIV's community.

[MiaShino]

It can't be understated both how wrong this is and how much the developers disagree with this at a fundemental level based on past interviews and answers.
Before you start typing out some poor comparison to item level or duty completion, no those are not the same as gating based on a 3rd party tool or needing to do x damage or kick.

Parties and especially statics already do this. Will state again because this seems to need mentioning once more. This is high level optional content. You do not require number aggregators to deduce that one or more party members is underperforming in hmm, let us say a farm party.

Huh, we should be skipping phase X. Hmm, by this amount of elapsed time we should be at X percent HP. Have not seen dance partner, where is it? No chain strat has been on the boss, why? Red Mage is not making contact with boss so they are obviously not doing melee. Not seeing much Glare from our White Mage probably will have to disband because we are not having this conversation in Savage.

Players participating in difficult content will have expectations and believing that damage is not and should never be factor is sillyness. No party lead is going to sit there willingly banging their head against enrage, they are going to leave duty > disband > blacklist. The option for fifteen minutes of Mothercrystal is not present here. This is not mandatory story mode content where that type of behavior is considered acceptable.

The requirements are simple for most group stuffs Savage+
Meld.
Eat food.
Pot.
Do mechanics.
Pass enrage.
Understand how to play your job to reasonable level.

If you find yourself being ejected from many groups for D.) Failing to pass enrage or E.)Barely understanding job fundamentals then it is time to look inward. Banning damage meters and attempting to force party leaders to stop kicking is not going to change anything. They will kick for which ever reason they decide. Tis their party their rules. Everyone who fails to comprehend this is free to form static or put up on PF. No one is stopping you!

You do not however get to walk into my house and demand I allow you to stay. That is fricken ridiculous. It is not "gatekeeping" if I forcefully eject your booty and no I do not need to give detailed reasons why. You join my static or PF you follow the rules or yeet boy.

[LittleImp]

Some people seem to believe they have an inherent right to other peoples time, which is a mortifying level of entitlement.

When content has strict requirements, allowing people in who cannot meet those requirements is just a pointless exercise in frustration that usually leads to unnecessary toxicity.

[SieyaM]

It's not hard to figure out if your damage is lower than expected you probably aren't hitting enough buttons or preparing combos properly. Not sure what tutorial you would need for that. The combat in this game isn't hard to figure out.

Ok, so if it is so easy to figure out then why do we need the damage meters? People should be able to read their tool tops and figure out how to use their skills.

[Hoodcat]

alot of these guys dont know they are not up to par, they usually have a friend or a random come in max gear and do the dps of two of them. And they do not even know it

ignorance is bliss =p

[Kenky]

Good lord, this is still going on?

*checks posts*

And people are still being hostile to each other. Great. Wonderful!

To the pro-parsers: Perhaps start acting civil and stop this petty bickering. Do not resort to snide remarks about "toxic casuals" or "people not up to par" as it completely undermines your claims about how "parsing" would help XIV. (Legal parsing, not FFlogs.)

To the anti-parsers: Stop the bickering. Start being civil to each other and perhaps turn this from a pointless moogle-waving contest into an actual constructive conversation about the pros and cons. Maybe people will find common ground, or better yet, understand why you take different stances!

To all: Remember that there's a LOT of variables in "doing good parses". Such as hardware, latency, player age & reaction times. Not everyone is on a computer with 3080Tis and 20ms ping (at its highest) while being hocked up on Adderall 24/7. Sometimes people just want to lay back on the sofa and decompress after work. Sometimes they may not want to put in 100%, yet still clear fights. Stop trying to turn XIV into a tryhards paradise. It's not built for that.

If you're clearing fights, you have no reason to complain. The only times max-DPS matters is Savage / Ultimates (at current content) and not everyone does that. But that doesn't mean their opinions are invalid.

Hell, people have been parsing in sastasha at level 18. When you physically cannot do "max-DPS". That doesn't stop the ne'er-do-wells. There's plenty of evidence of parsing being used to be toxic people all over the internet. Go have a look. The reasons people have for refusing a parser being in-the-game is warranted.

If the Parser was to ever actually be considered, the community needs to prove it can be trustworthy with it. As it currently stands, it doesn't look like it could be.

[VerdeLuck]

Parties and especially statics already do this. Will state again because this seems to need mentioning once more. This is high level optional content. You do not require number aggregators to deduce that one or more party members is underperforming in hmm, let us say a farm party.

Huh, we should be skipping phase X. Hmm, by this amount of elapsed time we should be at X percent HP. Have not seen dance partner, where is it? No chain strat has been on the boss, why? Red Mage is not making contact with boss so they are obviously not doing melee. Not seeing much Glare from our White Mage probably will have to disband because we are not having this conversation in Savage.

Players participating in difficult content will have expectations and believing that damage is not and should never be factor is sillyness. No party lead is going to sit there willingly banging their head against enrage, they are going to leave duty > disband > blacklist. The option for fifteen minutes of Mothercrystal is not present here. This is not mandatory story mode content where that type of behavior is considered acceptable.

The requirements are simple for most group stuffs Savage+
Meld.
Eat food.
Pot.
Do mechanics.
Pass enrage.
Understand how to play your job to reasonable level.

If you find yourself being ejected from many groups for D.) Failing to pass enrage or E.)Barely understanding job fundamentals then it is time to look inward. Banning damage meters and attempting to force party leaders to stop kicking is not going to change anything. They will kick for which ever reason they decide. Tis their party their rules. Everyone who fails to comprehend this is free to form static or put up on PF. No one is stopping you!

You do not however get to walk into my house and demand I allow you to stay. That is fricken ridiculous. It is not "gatekeeping" if I forcefully eject your booty and no I do not need to give detailed reasons why. You join my static or PF you follow the rules or yeet boy.

You don't even have any jobs at 90. This strong stance about how you should be able to gatekeep players out of content is just strange to me given the fact you don't even have these fights unlocked yet.