They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

[Sebazy]

Hm. Weird that the devs while testing can clear end game without addons. And you don't need FFlogs to play the game. As long as the boss dies and you don't then who cares.

Haven't I debunked you on this exact line before?

That line is entirely smoke and mirrors. Frankly you'd have to be an utter imbecile to think that they somehow need to use addons to test content in production. They can simply use development clients to use things such as godmode, inflated damage and hp, even break fights down into a phase by phase test if needed. This was something that was clarified very specifically by Yoshida back in Gordias and other than them switching away from testing phases individually (with fresh cooldowns which was a big part of the Gordias tuning issues), nothing appears to have changed.

If you seriously think that SE's testing team was clearing DSR entirely legitimately during it's development then I don't know what to say to you tbh.

[SilverSkyway]

We already know it's not needed. It's still nice to have, however.

Only thing I can see use is looking at the different on jobs. Like Mch. As a selfless dps it does less damage and use then a bard or DnC. FFlogs say as much. Yes, every job can clear but then there the elitist who look at that and say don't bring one because of logs.
Now I saw a post on self damage only. That could work but it only for the instance and you can't save it unless you screen shot it.

The difference between a fight taking 30 minutes or 15 minutes is why people use damage meters

If you re worried about taking to long then do something else. You went in to raid. It like saying CC pvp taking to long because the enemy putting up a fight.

Haven't I debunked you on this exact line before?

That line is entirely smoke and mirrors. Frankly you'd have to be an utter imbecile to think that they somehow need to use addons to test content in production. They can simply use development clients to use things such as godmode, inflated damage and hp, even break fights down into a phase by phase test if needed. This was something that was clarified very specifically by Yoshida back in Gordias and other than them switching away from testing phases individually (with fresh cooldowns which was a big part of the Gordias tuning issues), nothing appears to have changed.

If you seriously think that SE's testing team was clearing DSR entirely legitimately during it's development then I don't know what to say to you tbh.

Yes but they make sure it can be beat even if they don't restart every death.

[Klytania]

If you re worried about taking to long then do something else. You went in to raid. It like saying CC pvp taking to long because the enemy putting up a fight.

LMFAO.... Give me a break. Horrible logic, horrible analogy. I award you no points.

[DPZ2]

snip

Congratulation! When did you join the testing team? How did you get the job? Was it difficult to learn enough Japanese to be useful during the raid testing?

Or are you hand-waving like the rest of us when it comes to speaking about this issue?

[Yeastyloins]

Congratulation! When did you join the testing team? How did you get the job? Was it difficult to learn enough Japanese to be useful during the raid testing?

Or are you hand-waving like the rest of us when it comes to speaking about this issue?

Sounds a lot like you're doing some handwaving TBH.

[Sebazy]

Congratulation! When did you join the testing team? How did you get the job? Was it difficult to learn enough Japanese to be useful during the raid testing?

Or are you hand-waving like the rest of us when it comes to speaking about this issue?

Or maybe A) I did my homework and B) I've got actual relevant experience in the industry with a similarly large scale developer and publisher so have a fairly good idea of how this stuff is handled in a timely and cost effective manner.

Here's probably the most relevant interview to this topic:

https://www.4gamer.net/games/278/G027835/20151224179/

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...tions-requests

It may be difficult to deal DPS close to the 100% result. By the way, we also got some posts asking if the members who worked on developing the battles had cleared the end-game content themselves during development.

Yoshida: So like asking whether or how we tested the end-game content and performed balance adjustments?

I think that's the gist of it.

Yoshida: For high difficulty battle content like the extreme battle series, Bahamut's Coils, and the savage version of Alexander, we begin by performing adjustments to the mechanics from an invincible state. Since members of the planning team are practicing the fights for the first time just like players do, if they had to wipe repeatedly there wouldn't be enough time to make adjustments. The priority in this stage is to make sure the mechanics are understandable and hinted at.

By looking through the whole fight in an invulnerable state, you can still repeat with trial and error but it takes less time to get used to the mechanics.

Yoshida: Well, since we're doing adjustments we're starting from a "rough" state of the final fight, so it's a bit different. By implementing the mechanics roughly and testing them in an invincible state, we can make larger adjustments for the mechanics and get a feel for each phase. Once we've made the primary adjustments to the mechanics, we apply a different version of the invulnerable status.

What are the differences?

Yoshida: The HP gauge will drop from damage as usual, but instead of falling when it hits 0, it gets refilled to max. Finally, we remove it and we see whether it can be cleared normally with no changes.

I see. And this applies to the highest difficulty content like the fourth section of Alexander savage?

Yoshida: For the third and fourth parts of Alexander savage specifically, we tested each phase. The FFXIV battle team is made up of some pretty good players, but these aren't world class players. It would have taken longer to perform adjustments if we tested as usual, so we tried to shorten it a bit.

So the release would be delayed if they tested until they could clear.

Yoshida: Since the development cycle is limited we had to proceed with the development of other content. You could sort of say we've cleared it completely through (laughs).

If you could easily clear it then it wouldn't really be fitting as the most difficult end-game content.

Yoshida: That's right. The battle check members of the development team look at FFXIV players and take samples of log data from the hardest battle to compare. The DPS values for the world-class players is really amazing....

So, what was it you were saying?

[Zarkovitch]

I think damage meter shouldn't not be implimented on casual content aka no enrage timer. However they should add somekind of dmg test to pass if you want to touch newer savages or extremes. That would be the best path.

[Semirhage]

Hm. Weird that the devs while testing can clear end game without addons. And you don't need FFlogs to play the game. As long as the boss dies and you don't then who cares.

ToS been there since release. Really the Addons they need put in game are QoL stuff like chat bubbles and gshade settings and better color blind stuff. Damage meter is not one that is needed.

A damage meter *is* QoL. It's just irrationally hated because some people might be mean sometimes and might even be incorrect with those criticisms.

Every single one of these persecution fantasies is trivially refuted by tapping on the "harassment is against the ToS" sign.

But FFXIV's community is so marshmallow soft that the guarantee isn't good enough. No, SOMEone, SOMEwhere, MIGHT have the ability to ask if they want pointers and have some dirty, filthy facts to back it up. And it's the "having facts to back it up" part that's bad.

That's what every. Single. Anti-parser argument boils down to. The harassment part is ALREADY punishable. The change they object to is the numbers. The facts. The stats, plain and simple. You adamantly, furiously, don't want numbers. And what a hill to stake one's claim on. Ignorance is strength. Passive-aggression is politeness. Knowledge is evil subversive contraband that must remain a punishable offense.

[CosmicCoqui]

People seem to not understand yoshi has never once changed his position on damage meters. He seen in another game what it can lead to and does not want it here. It's a horse thats been beaten to death since 2.xx patch series. If it hasn't change since then, don't expect it to anytime soon..

[Avenger]

People seem to not understand yoshi has never once changed his position on damage meters. He seen in another game what it can lead to and does not want it here. It's a horse thats been beaten to death since 2.xx patch series. If it hasn't change since then, don't expect it to anytime soon..

As I understand it, they (devs and/or Yoshi-p) did suggest early on (e.g. at fanfest 2014 or something) that they were considering a client-side scripting/add-on feature for FFXIV (which may have even been in development at the time, e.g. allowing users to write lua scripts which would be executed by the FFXIV client) and that it would enable the creation of DPS meters as well as quality of life features. Post ARR however, they 1) never delivered that feature and 2) made it abundantly clear on multiple occasions that they never intend to provide a DPS meter because, although certain players would enjoy it and possibly benefit from it, Yoshi-p and company are 100% convinced (based on evidence from other MMOs as well as their own thinking over many years) that it would be used for bullying, exclusion, and even more of an overemphasis on efficiency, and therefore can never be added to FFXIV as an official or permitted feature.

In spite of groups of vocal players beating the dead horse for many years, they have not changed their position and are probably unlikely to. The closest thing we're likely to see is Stone/Sky/Sea type DPS challenges.