They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

[Klytania]

If you look em up, it's very clear why they think a meter isn't needed

I know

There are basically 2 camps of naysayers. People who are established with a static and don't care about anything outside of themselves, and people who still forget to use tank stance in level 90 content.

[VerdeLuck]

If you look em up, it's very clear why they think a meter isn't needed

If you can't have a discussion without running off to fflogs to check if the person posting has good parses then why should they trust that you aren't going to look up someone else's damage to harass them in game if they do anything you don't like?

[Klytania]

If you can't have a discussion without running off to fflogs to check if the person posting has good parses then why should they trust that you aren't going to look up someone else's damage to harass them in game if they do anything you don't like?

Context for people's comments are important.

[Rolder50]

If you can't have a discussion without running off to fflogs to check if the person posting has good parses then why should they trust that you aren't going to look up someone else's damage to harass them in game if they do anything you don't like?

Easy, if people are posting on here about why a damage meter isn't important or isn't needed, but they are getting carried through content, it makes their claims dubious at best. The in-game comparison would be if someone was bragging about how much damage they do or how they are good at the game and you go to check if this is true or not.

[Padudu]

If you can't have a discussion without running off to fflogs to check if the person posting has good parses then why should they trust that you aren't going to look up someone else's damage to harass them in game if they do anything you don't like?

If someone was advocating for add-on support for deep dungeons, crafting, gathering, or any other content wouldn't you want to gauge how much experience they have in it? If you find out that someone has never touched crafting at all, then why would you take what they say more seriously VS someone who has poured hours and hours into it? Same concept with parses. Why would you take someone's word who has never even touched anything above a recent extreme, over someone who raids regularly in current content?

[Saraide]

Context matters. The point, in the statements leading up to it, is that harassment is easy to verify, so they ban more frequently for that. ACT usage is not so easy to verify for them because they don't want to invade your privacy and install detection software to determine what else is running on your computer. He never said that they don't ban for ACT. He said that it's harder to prove. In that same interview, he also explicitly said not to use ACT. The reason the streamers are being banned for their use of the software is because they provided video evidence that they're using it, so SE was able to verify that they were breaking TOS without having to infect anyone with spyware. Regardless of how you misinterpreted previous statements, there's a big difference between, "We're looking the other way, so go for it," and "We're not going to invade your privacy to verify that you're not doing it, but please don't do it anyway because it's not allowed."

ACT used without harassment is also not a problem. It's the most victimless crime possible. Harassment on the other hand isnt. He is saying that you get banned for harassment before you get banned for using ACT is because the relevant part is the harassment not the third party tool usage. Additionally it covers non ACT related harassment over performance because lets be real, if someone is exceptionally dogshit at the game I dont need ACT to notice. ACT is entirely irrelevant in the conversation about harassment over performance.

[Avatre]

Honestly, I can see the benefit to individual players to have a built-in DPS meter, that could even rank you the same way FFLogs does, but is completely private. It would tell you that there are improvements that can be done, though it may not be evident what you need to do, it would be a starting point of "Oh, my rotation isn't optimal, time to look around and see what would be better/help me improve".

On the other hand, if is isn't private, I can see people kicking others from parties before even going into any content due to their numbers. Or, even if it is private, kicking people who don't want to share their numbers with others. It could lead to a fair amount of discrimination, especially when it's found out that someone lied about their numbers just so they wouldn't get kicked.

I really don't care that people do parse, because it doesn't really affect me as an average player since I don't do savage/ultimates, provided it's used as a tool for self improvement/helping those on console - like myself - know where they need to improve(without harassing them of course).

[Jaquan]

I know

There are basically 2 camps of naysayers. People who are established with a static and don't care about anything outside of themselves, and people who still forget to use tank stance in level 90 content.

I'd say there's also camp 3. People who had negative experience with said tools being openly available.

Judging from experience I'd wager that majority of those for whom damage meter would have positive impact on their growth already use them. The rest? You're giving them a tool they can't really use at best and way to measure themselves to others at worst. Even if it won't escalate into full blown harassment I feel the passive-agressive behavior will just grow worse. And not just between "Elite and non elite". From my experience the rift usually starts out on barely average level. Those who don't really have much leg to stand on against proper high end player but at least better than "bottom trash". I've yet to see the game with some means of comparing players that wouldn't spiral in that way. And with overall fear of being reported for trying to help it would only grow worse.

[Ronduwil]

ACT used without harassment is also not a problem. It's the most victimless crime possible.

Except that he never said that. In fact, he explicitly said:

I'm aware that there will be people using it to calculate their personal numbers, but I know you'll see this in the Party Finder: "Only join if you can prove that you can DPS xxx amount." We never want that to happen.

That has nothing to do with harassment and everything to do with gatekeeping. WoW embraces it, and this game thankfully does not. That's why I'm playing this game and not WoW.

Don't take my word for it. See Yoshi-P say it for yourself: https://youtu.be/e_i6mjiGerU?t=280

[Saraide]

Except that he never said that. In fact, he explicitly said:

That has nothing to do with harassment and everything to do with gatekeeping. WoW embraces it, and this game thankfully does not. That's why I'm playing this game and not WoW.

A dubious reasoning as ilvl gating already exists and it's not only not a problem but also entirely avoidable by just making your own party. The higher you set expectations, the slower your party can fill but setting clear expectations is a benefit to everyone involved if people can accurately grasp and live with their own performance.

Ilvl gating can be very gatekeepy. When endsinger ex came out you could just set the min ilvl for your pf to 600 and only people who did savage were able to join. Did that cause issues? No, not only will not everyone set it that high but also everyone who hasnt done savage could just create their own PF. This to me proves that this fear yoship has stated is not well founded.