They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

[Bobby66]

Think it so more has to do with the idea that the laws should be changed to reflect the new change in view. Though if someone went onto a person's land to free their slaves sure what they did was right but if they got shot or jailed for such an action tbh I doubt they would epeshocked: when they were found to have broken the law.

I am sorry asking for forgiveness instead of permission is a silly concept and that is what this largely boils down to.

[Saraide]

Think it so more has to do with the idea that the laws should be changed to reflect the new change in view. Though if someone went onto a person's land to free their slaves sure what they did was right but if they got shot or jailed for such an action tbh I doubt they would epeshocked: when they were found to have broken the law.

I am sorry asking for forgiveness instead of permission is a silly concept and that is what this largely boils down to.

Where does this gloating come from? Could it happen, yea sure. Is there any sense in it happening this way? Not really. People send those reports, people handle those reports, people decide on how to act on them. The people sending those brigade reports are bad actors so I am aware dishonest people exist but the people handling reports (and thus doing the moderation) should be held to a higher standard because they hold more power. Just because something isnt surprising doesnt mean we should just roll over and be okay with it. Ignoring and defying unjust laws is the civil duty of everyone, the scale of that varies of course from one issue to the next but the principle is the same.

All these rule lawyer posts boil down to well you shouldnt be surprised. Okay, so what? That doesnt make the underlying issue any smarter.

[Bobby66]

Where does this gloating come from? Could it happen, yea sure. Is there any sense in it happening this way? Not really. People send those reports, people handle those reports, people decide on how to act on them. The people sending those brigade reports are bad actors so I am aware dishonest people exist but the people handling reports (and thus doing the moderation) should be held to a higher standard because they hold more power. Just because something isnt surprising doesnt mean we should just roll over and be okay with it. Ignoring and defying unjust laws is the civil duty of everyone, the scale of that varies of course from one issue to the next but the principle is the same.

All these rule lawyer posts boil down to well you shouldnt be surprised. Okay, so what? That doesnt make the underlying issue any smarter.

Cause that is the thing people are acting shocked, and honestly they have no reason to be shocked. I agree we should discuses the rules and how they do not reflect the current needs, but that does not mean that those that have been caught in the cross fire of breaking the rules should be treated as those that did not break the rules. Until they rules are changed the should be treated like any other rule breaker even if their reasoning behind breaking the rules is a noble one. It is a civil duty to defy unjust laws sure, but in doing so one must understand the inherent risk that comes with standing up to so called injustice or unjust laws / practices. Also let us be real people were not using this mods as a means of standing up to unjust rules, they were doing it solely out of convenience. These actions were not done as a means of trying to right some wrong or stand up for the little guy who uses tools for accessibility reasons.

[Saraide]

Cause that is the thing people are acting shocked, and honestly they have no reason to be shocked. I agree we should discuses the rules and how they do not reflect the current needs, but that does not mean that those that have been caught in the cross fire of breaking the rules should be treated as those that did not break the rules. Until they rules are changed the should be treated like any other rule breaker even if their reasoning behind breaking the rules is a noble one. It is a civil duty to defy unjust laws sure, but in doing so one must understand the inherent risk that comes with standing up to so called injustice or unjust laws / practices. Also let us be real people were not using this mods as a means of standing up to unjust rules, they were doing it solely out of convenience. These actions were not done as a means of trying to right some wrong or stand up for the little guy who uses tools for accessibility reasons.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble here but the point of these threads is not "surprise".

[Bobby66]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble here but the point of these threads is not "surprise".

Aye, yeah the point of the all these threads are to have a civil discussion about how certain features should be added to the game as a baseline. Hardly any of them are about how silly it is to be punished for breaking a rule regarding 3rd party tools.

[Saimeren]

You really think there won't be any toxicity over "your damage sucks"?

I think you might be a little delusional. I'm willing to bet that most people use/want damage meters not to see their own dps improve and learn from the data, but rather to see if they're better than the other guy.

Gamers have big egos. A lot of us just want to be the best. We want to blow things up and see big numbers. And if my number is bigger than your number then I win.

And I'm willing to bet that that's the primary reason people want damage meters. But they won't admit it of course.

[Klytania]

Gamers have big egos. A lot of us just want to be the best. We want to blow things up and see big numbers. And if my number is bigger than your number then I win.

And? TOS stays the same.

You inadvertently exposed why a lot of people DON'T want it in the game. It's not because of "toxicity" it's because people don't want their performance quantified with readily accessible objective data.

[Kazimere]

You really think there won't be any toxicity over "your damage sucks"?

I think you might be a little delusional. I'm willing to bet that most people use/want damage meters not to see their own dps improve and learn from the data, but rather to see if they're better than the other guy.

Gamers have big egos. A lot of us just want to be the best. We want to blow things up and see big numbers. And if my number is bigger than your number then I win.

And I'm willing to bet that that's the primary reason people want damage meters. But they won't admit it of course.

You’d be wrong on that one. Competition isn’t a bad thing though, so who cares. The information is already available in the combat log. The parser just compiles it.

[Saimeren]

Competition isn’t a bad thing though, so who cares.

Until it becomes "you can't join our group unless you can do "X" damage. Then it becomes gatekeeping.

[Saraide]

Until it becomes "you can't join our group unless you can do "X" damage. Then it becomes gatekeeping.

Walk me through the logistics of that vs what is currently possible and happening. Do you really think someone is gonna write the essay required to specify target dps thresholds for each job which doesnt even really work with many jobs having group buffs that rely on their allies to also contribute correctly and differs for every fight. Or do you think people would just set and ilvl gate, set the PF to duty complete and then just kick based on who isnt up to expectations. That's how it works right now and it's far easier to do as PF host.

Gatekeeping is already happening in PF and that's good. Forcing people together with mismatched expectations only breeds frustrations afterall. And as always, you can just host your own PF if you dont like the duty complete requirement or the specified ilvl.