SAM players are quitting

[Lyth]

...

The one thing that people invariably forget is that, sub or not, you can't actually log on to the forums without having logged on to your character within the past 14 days, and the forums auto-log you out when that flag hits. It's actually incredibly easy to fact check this from the post date, and I can tell you that there are quite a few 'expiry dates' coming up on some oddly active posters.

On the plus side, if true, at least that will mean less duplicate and toxic threads, as well as a return to higher quality posting.

Another potency shift, Kaiten returns, Kaiten just makes the next weaponskill auto-crit.

Oddly enough, this is exactly what I would predict them to do in response to feedback. Kaiten was never their primary target in the first place.

[DreadfullyAwful]

The one thing that people invariably forget is that, sub or not, you can't actually log on to the forums without having logged on to your character within the past 14 days, and the forums auto-log you out when that flag hits. It's actually incredibly easy to fact check this from the post date, and I can tell you that there are quite a few 'expiry dates' coming up on some oddly active posters.

I was very active on the forums post 6.1, but I got discouraged after 6.11 and the lack of developer feedback despite the uproar - which seemed to be overshadowed by the house lottery crisis. I am very much wait and see now, but I'm sure even when my forum privileges are gone, it will remain a very active and prominent issue until/if it is a addressed.

私も絶で侍使用しています。
うちの固定には近接が私だけなので火力で遅れをとるようなことはあまりなかったのですが、
昨日の野良募集で一緒にプレイした忍者さんにはだいぶ劣るという結果でした。
詩人さんのバトルボイス、忍者さんの騙しのタイミングに閃影や震天をずらした開幕バーストですら敵わない。
悲しい…ピュアDPSとは…いったい…

他DPSのスレも盛り上がってるのかなーと見てみたら6.1リリース後からのコメント数
侍 792
モ 9
竜 201
リ 17
忍 125
機 61
踊 11
詩 101
赤 48
召 62
黒 3


こんだけフィードバックがあるんですから、なんとかしてください。
ずっと侍使い続けてきたのに今モンク用の装備を揃えようとしてるところです、悲しい…

This JP player showed that on their forums, feedback has rapidly exploded following the 6.1 proposed changes, with players leaving the same amount of feedback as the total feedback between 4.0 as 6.1. That is 2~ years worth of feedback over one patch. Despite how much other players (after scanning accounts, that do not even have SAM 90 if a 90 at all) in this thread wish to dismiss this issue, it is definitely a change that has troubled players across all data centers.

[AsiTsurugi]

The one thing that people invariably forget is that, sub or not, you can't actually log on to the forums without having logged on to your character within the past 14 days, and the forums auto-log you out when that flag hits. It's actually incredibly easy to fact check this from the post date, and I can tell you that there are quite a few 'expiry dates' coming up on some oddly active posters.

On the plus side, if true, at least that will mean less duplicate and toxic threads, as well as a return to higher quality posting.

Oddly enough, this is exactly what I would predict them to do in response to feedback. Kaiten was never their primary target in the first place.

"Higher quality posting" such as dismissing anyone with any sort of feedback about any job changes either very openly or (not particularly thinly) veiled, like yours? Or was it trying to derail threads in job subforums to be about housing plots and Gpose options? Or is this "your forums", and we are polluting it with content you do not approve of?

Because going through the forums, this "higher quality posting" is in fact restricted to threads about job feedback, which you and your fellow "regulars" seem to feel the need to come in and derail or dismiss claiming they are not, presumably your preferred type of, "higher quality posting"?

[FrogBiscuit]

On the plus side, if true, at least that will mean less duplicate and toxic threads, as well as a return to higher quality posting.

Sort of odd to assert that people making the choice to un-sub due to their current opinion of the game, are the source of poor quality, toxic threads...

The vast majority of toxicity has been sourced from people who are going out of their way to speak down to and criticize their fellow players on a subject that clearly isn't terribly important to them (clearly expressed by the argument of theirs effectively being "Why are you overreacting? Its not that important!").


You want to see the majority of toxicity and crude posts to leave the forum? That would require people simply allowing others to speak their mind when SE asks for the very feedback they are getting and for those who take some self centered issue with the other posters doing so, to simply hold their peace and not post when they don't have anything constructive or beneficial to add. Taking a contradictory stance, or posing conflicting statements is more then fine... But that isn't representative of the vast majority of the condemnation that has been posted in response to the SAM outcry over the 6.1 changes.


If you don't want toxicity in the forums, it has very little to do with the SAM players taking a break. Its is almost entirely rooted behind people who take issue to other players expressing their opinion to a company (who asked for the very thing) for some obscure reason and insist on letting the world know about it.

I would argue there is typically far more detail and thought in a post coming from a passionate player with clear care for a game they have been playing, then that of a poster who's only existence in the thread is for telling the other people in the thread that they are overreacting, their opinions are overblown and incorrect, and should really just shut up...

[DreadfullyAwful]

Quote

I completely agree with your statement. However, I welcome the criticism of these players as they are working to their own detriment. For, not only are they exposing the flaws in their own logic the more they argue, but they keep SAM threads prominently displayed at the top of the DPS so that the issue does not decay away.

[FrogBiscuit]

I completely agree with your statement. However, I welcome the criticism of these players as they are working to their own detriment. For, not only are they exposing the flaws in their own logic the more they argue, but they keep SAM threads prominently displayed at the top of the DPS so that the issue does not decay away.

Oh, 100% :P

I personally have gotten over the toxicity and at this point just interpret it as unconscious support for our issue.

But I have to admit its hard to stop myself from pointing out how a post directly contradicts reality...

[CelestiCer]

Oh, 100% :P

I personally have gotten over the toxicity and at this point just interpret it as unconscious support for our issue.

But I have to admit its hard to stop myself from pointing out how a post directly contradicts reality...

For me it's these frequent obvious troll posters, who clearly don't play Samurai nor care for the job or the game for that matter. Spamming illogical points and arguments to invalidate feedback from creditable sources of experienced players with sometimes years of experiences. Good Experienced players aren't Gods, but generally a good insight equal to say someone proficient at a profession.

Yet to disrespectfully act like they know a thing... like they are going to

• a Doctor telling them they diagnosed it wrong
• a Dentist telling them they don't know dental practices
• a Carpenter telling them how to actually handle Plywood
• a Chef, telling them how to actually braise meat
• a Mathematician, telling them 1+1=4.5 and a half eaten apple

Entitled opinions? fine... but without any experience to back anything up they said, with clear history that they indeed have no experiences... it just makes it look so damn dumb. That's what I find toxic.

All of this combined is frankly why the Kenki management argument kind of falls short - Because the Priority the player is taught compared to the priority we now have isn't really all that different.

Like this person, probably a decent player. SAM Main? probably not. Trying to invalidate what people find fun/intrigued/depth purely by reading our skills. Having to always have 20 Kenki for your major hits sounds quite easy on paper, Yes and numerous people keep saying that... " On Paper ".

In practice you will mess up, the punishment. Doing it right is the Reward, hence " Kenki Management ". Kaiten now removed means no punishment no reward no management. Plus not every fight is the same where Kaiten perfectly fits every fight at every moment. A good example for me is P3S where I try to figure out if I can slidecast Midare and fitting Kaiten after Brand... and it feels amazing to dodge that explosion. There are countless moments like these where Kaiten barely fits and yet we manage to pull it off. This is now gone, less depth, brainless, zero management.

That's like me saying Reassemble should just be a passive. Am I talking out of my ass for saying that? Yes cause I don't play nor do I know anything about Machinist. And even if I read on paper what the skillkit of a job does, I have no experience with it.

Non-Samurai mains judging how it means nothing... and to manage nothing... on paper... if players genuine argument point to defend Kaiten removal meaning So Little, if it meant So Little to so many who don't main SAM? what is the big deal then to not have it return if it meant " So Little " to them when it meant " So much to others " ?

[Kabooa]

That's like me saying Reassemble should just be a passive. I have no experience with it.

You have enough general play experience to look at a skill, how it's intended to be used, and make an assumption on it.

This is because the difference between the various jobs are not so steep that it prevents experience from one translating to another. I know that you know exactly what Reassemble should be used for, and I know this without having to know whether or not you have ever touched the job.

[CelestiCer]

You have enough general play experience to look at a skill, how it's intended to be used, and make an assumption on it.
This is because the difference between the various jobs are not so steep that it prevents experience from one can quite easily translate to another.

Then you also know that by reading skills purely alone, it doesn't do justice as to what you can or cannot do in every single given situation on every single job in every single fight.

While jobs might not vary in steepness, I don't see the logic in advocating making it even more stale by removing any ounce of depth that many hold dear. The benefits or the enjoyment loss you suffer? from Kaiten Removal is so "Non-Existing", that defending it's removal? means so little, what is the argument point at that point for us not having it back when it means so much to Samurai mains.

This... notion of " Choice-less " to invalidate Kenki-management? The only way I can understand this if players view FFXIV's job rotations to be pre-destined, played like a perfectly scripted accordion for every fight. You cast Kaiten exactly at x time at x fight at x situation regardless of what happens? I mean I guess? but at that point doesn't that invalidate every bar, every gauge, every resource and even every cast anyone casts? If players perfectly adhere to a scripted list of skills they cast? <- Cause this is about the only way I can see that argument of there being no management of practically anything, then I agree yes.

But not everyone casts everything the same, not everyone performs the same... and that makes Kenki or any resource from any job fluctuate -> creating " Choice ". That choice to press different buttons that costs kenki? yes that's your choice to " Manage ". To knowingly cast Gekko and Kasha to generate enough for Kaiten + Midare and not trigger finger the Kenki away with Shinten yes that's a choice. To cast Kaiten and Ogi Namikiri and knowing you have enough cast time to do it as you move out of harms way or knowing you don't to delay it and not overcap your Kenki and use Shinten to manage it, that's a choice.

I don't even feel like I need to explain this... I genuinely believe I don't, not with you... but with plenty apparently I do... cause the only meme argument point they have is to invalidate all of these experiences that has become muscle memory for plenty of us into just " It's a button you press everytime "