SAM players are quitting

[Lyth]

...

The one thing that people invariably forget is that, sub or not, you can't actually log on to the forums without having logged on to your character within the past 14 days, and the forums auto-log you out when that flag hits. It's actually incredibly easy to fact check this from the post date, and I can tell you that there are quite a few 'expiry dates' coming up on some oddly active posters.

On the plus side, if true, at least that will mean less duplicate and toxic threads, as well as a return to higher quality posting.

Another potency shift, Kaiten returns, Kaiten just makes the next weaponskill auto-crit.

Oddly enough, this is exactly what I would predict them to do in response to feedback. Kaiten was never their primary target in the first place.

[DreadfullyAwful]

The one thing that people invariably forget is that, sub or not, you can't actually log on to the forums without having logged on to your character within the past 14 days, and the forums auto-log you out when that flag hits. It's actually incredibly easy to fact check this from the post date, and I can tell you that there are quite a few 'expiry dates' coming up on some oddly active posters.

I was very active on the forums post 6.1, but I got discouraged after 6.11 and the lack of developer feedback despite the uproar - which seemed to be overshadowed by the house lottery crisis. I am very much wait and see now, but I'm sure even when my forum privileges are gone, it will remain a very active and prominent issue until/if it is a addressed.

私も絶で侍使用しています。
うちの固定には近接が私だけなので火力で遅れをとるようなことはあまりなかったのですが、
昨日の野良募集で一緒にプレイした忍者さんにはだいぶ劣るという結果でした。
詩人さんのバトルボイス、忍者さんの騙しのタイミングに閃影や震天をずらした開幕バーストですら敵わない。
悲しい…ピュアDPSとは…いったい…

他DPSのスレも盛り上がってるのかなーと見てみたら6.1リリース後からのコメント数
侍 792
モ 9
竜 201
リ 17
忍 125
機 61
踊 11
詩 101
赤 48
召 62
黒 3


こんだけフィードバックがあるんですから、なんとかしてください。
ずっと侍使い続けてきたのに今モンク用の装備を揃えようとしてるところです、悲しい…

This JP player showed that on their forums, feedback has rapidly exploded following the 6.1 proposed changes, with players leaving the same amount of feedback as the total feedback between 4.0 as 6.1. That is 2~ years worth of feedback over one patch. Despite how much other players (after scanning accounts, that do not even have SAM 90 if a 90 at all) in this thread wish to dismiss this issue, it is definitely a change that has troubled players across all data centers.

[AsiTsurugi]

The one thing that people invariably forget is that, sub or not, you can't actually log on to the forums without having logged on to your character within the past 14 days, and the forums auto-log you out when that flag hits. It's actually incredibly easy to fact check this from the post date, and I can tell you that there are quite a few 'expiry dates' coming up on some oddly active posters.

On the plus side, if true, at least that will mean less duplicate and toxic threads, as well as a return to higher quality posting.

Oddly enough, this is exactly what I would predict them to do in response to feedback. Kaiten was never their primary target in the first place.

"Higher quality posting" such as dismissing anyone with any sort of feedback about any job changes either very openly or (not particularly thinly) veiled, like yours? Or was it trying to derail threads in job subforums to be about housing plots and Gpose options? Or is this "your forums", and we are polluting it with content you do not approve of?

Because going through the forums, this "higher quality posting" is in fact restricted to threads about job feedback, which you and your fellow "regulars" seem to feel the need to come in and derail or dismiss claiming they are not, presumably your preferred type of, "higher quality posting"?

[FrogBiscuit]

On the plus side, if true, at least that will mean less duplicate and toxic threads, as well as a return to higher quality posting.

Sort of odd to assert that people making the choice to un-sub due to their current opinion of the game, are the source of poor quality, toxic threads...

The vast majority of toxicity has been sourced from people who are going out of their way to speak down to and criticize their fellow players on a subject that clearly isn't terribly important to them (clearly expressed by the argument of theirs effectively being "Why are you overreacting? Its not that important!").


You want to see the majority of toxicity and crude posts to leave the forum? That would require people simply allowing others to speak their mind when SE asks for the very feedback they are getting and for those who take some self centered issue with the other posters doing so, to simply hold their peace and not post when they don't have anything constructive or beneficial to add. Taking a contradictory stance, or posing conflicting statements is more then fine... But that isn't representative of the vast majority of the condemnation that has been posted in response to the SAM outcry over the 6.1 changes.


If you don't want toxicity in the forums, it has very little to do with the SAM players taking a break. Its is almost entirely rooted behind people who take issue to other players expressing their opinion to a company (who asked for the very thing) for some obscure reason and insist on letting the world know about it.

I would argue there is typically far more detail and thought in a post coming from a passionate player with clear care for a game they have been playing, then that of a poster who's only existence in the thread is for telling the other people in the thread that they are overreacting, their opinions are overblown and incorrect, and should really just shut up...

[DreadfullyAwful]

Quote

I completely agree with your statement. However, I welcome the criticism of these players as they are working to their own detriment. For, not only are they exposing the flaws in their own logic the more they argue, but they keep SAM threads prominently displayed at the top of the DPS so that the issue does not decay away.

[FrogBiscuit]

I completely agree with your statement. However, I welcome the criticism of these players as they are working to their own detriment. For, not only are they exposing the flaws in their own logic the more they argue, but they keep SAM threads prominently displayed at the top of the DPS so that the issue does not decay away.

Oh, 100% :P

I personally have gotten over the toxicity and at this point just interpret it as unconscious support for our issue.

But I have to admit its hard to stop myself from pointing out how a post directly contradicts reality...

[KanuKano]

It's been nearly a month since the recent changes and I've only touched it about 3 times total in PvE content. If they're still taking in feedback, I'd at least like for all the changes to be reverted.

Seeing the big numbers from guaranteed crit isn't as impressive as I thought it'd be. Tenka Goken being point blank AoE now doesn't feel good to me. Tenka being conal AoE was more intuitive, flashy, and made dungeon mob pulls more engaging.

I was sad to see Kaiten go, but I thought I'd be okay with the changes. It didn't really live up to my standards.

[AsiTsurugi]

It's been nearly a month since the recent changes and I've only touched it about 3 times total in PvE content. If they're still taking in feedback, I'd at least like for all the changes to be reverted.

Seeing the big numbers from guaranteed crit isn't as impressive as I thought it'd be. Tenka Goken being point blank AoE now doesn't feel good to me. Tenka being conal AoE was more intuitive, flashy, and made dungeon mob pulls more engaging.

I was sad to see Kaiten go, but I thought I'd be okay with the changes. It didn't really live up to my standards.

On the topic of guaranteed crits, setting aside for a minute the obviously enormous anti-synergy it brings to a buff-utilizing job like SAM, our current Midare guaranteed crits are as low as what they hit for pre-6.1 with no crit or direct hit. A post-6.1 CDH Midare hits for 10-12k less than a pre-6.1 CDH Midare. And combo finishers hit for minutely less than this "big skill we build towards". There is no "big skill" at the end of the loop, it's just another insipid nothing. Not to mention the rewarding feedback loop in the form of kaiten weaving, and the conal Tenka Goken that was a ton of fun to play around with are both missing.

None of us care that SAM does the same or slightly more "overall dps" as before. The feel of the job has been gutted intentionally, surgically and without any explanation, and I think the lack of explanation is what irks a lot of us.

EDIT: Like Quor above pointed, we need the "kenki generation from positionals" back as well. I had actually forgotten that happened during 6.0, so thank you for the reminder.

[Quor]

On the topic of guaranteed crits, setting aside for a minute the obviously enormous anti-synergy it brings to a buff-utilizing job like SAM, our current Midare guaranteed crits are as low as what they hit for pre-6.1 with no crit or direct hit. A post-6.1 CDH Midare hits for 10-12k less than a pre-6.1 CDH Midare. And combo finishers hit for minutely less than this "big skill we build towards". There is no "big skill" at the end of the loop, it's just another insipid nothing. Not to mention the rewarding feedback loop in the form of kaiten weaving, and the conal Tenka Goken that was a ton of fun to play around with are both missing.

None of us care that SAM does the same or slightly more "overall dps" as before. The feel of the job has been gutted intentionally, surgically and without any explanation, and I think the lack of explanation is what irks a lot of us.

Given Yoshi P.'s surprise during the patch notes reading, I have to believe there is a disconnect between him, the feedback teams and the players. I.e. the feedback teams aren't being completely honest about the state of things and this is influencing his ability to make executive decisions.

Then again, that requires me to believe that feedback was collected in the first place. The TA and Kaiten changes being two big examples that neither NIN nor SAM players were engaged about the upcoming changes. But Yoshi's surprise was so evident and clear that it really looked like he got cold-cocked by chat's reactions. My hope, naive and overly optimistic though it may be, is that Yoshi is undertaking a nice, thorough audit of his feedback team and where/why the disconnect occurred, with eventual plans to fix things so that this doesn't happen again.

But then again the ex-wife always did say I was overly optimistic about humans. Please don't make the ex-wife right Yoshi.

[Rakobi]

I didn't unsubscribe but I did quit samurai and am pretty bitter about it, especially because I had spent a good bit of time gearing it this tier. I played samurai for around 5-6 raid tiers and I think 2? ultimates despite how good or bad it was. It was a gameplay thing for me. The game is still fun but I feel pretty lost, nothing is really clicking as a "main" right now. It's difficult to gauge how many people truly favor the changes. Most of the people defending them here do so by arguing that they are minor and that the discontent is exaggerated, rarely or never arguing that the changes are actually "good". I don't have data, but if most people don't care either way or disfavor them then it seems like the changes really should be reverted.