What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Valfreyja]

I really can't tell if this is a serious question. When deciding on whether or not to implement Time Travel to undo history, then yes. I think it's fair to ask that some time be taken to consider how this may affect civilizations of the future. You're trying to make it sound as though the poster suggested that we sit down and discuss every mundane point of action that we do in the game before we do it, but that is a misrepresentation of her statement.

That's the thing. Time Travel wasn't taken to undo history.

Time Travel was undertaken in order to try to figure out if people from Elpis could help understand what was going on with the Final Days.

You didn't go back to undo anything.

People are trying to act like the WoL going back in time was to change what happened. And that isn't what the story is. The WoL went back in time because they always did.

That's how it was portrayed and there is really no changing that fact now, no matter how hard people want to argue.

The WoL was present for the trigger of the Final Days. They played a role in it. Just like Hermes, Meteion, Venat, and Emet Selch all played their roles. None of them are solely responsible for it. Each of them had a part in it.

I meant future expansions. Civilizations that might currently exist in Meracydia, the new world, other shards etc.

But how are we threatening those civilizations? By what actions are we putting them at risk?

[PawPaw]

That's the thing. Time Travel wasn't taken to undo history.

Time Travel was undertaken in order to try to figure out if people from Elpis could help understand what was going on with the Final Days.

You didn't go back to undo anything.

People are trying to act like the WoL going back in time was to change what happened. And that isn't what the story is. The WoL went back in time because they always did.

That's how it was portrayed and there is really no changing that fact now, no matter how hard people want to argue.

The WoL was present for the trigger of the Final Days. They played a role in it. Just like Hermes, Meteion, Venat, and Emet Selch all played their roles. None of them are solely responsible for it. Each of them had a part in it.


But how are we threatening those civilizations? By what actions are we putting them at risk?

First of all, the original statement was referring to the moment that the Exarch and Urianger are discussing the 8UC, which is to say, the alternate timeline which was created after the 8th Umbral Calamity. This timeline was created because G'raha Tia and the Ironworks decided that it was worth rewriting history, to stop the 8UC from ever happening and saving the life of your character who dies during said calamity. That is Time Travel, Time Travel which is undertaken to undo history.



In fact, the presence of that timeline? That's one of the reasons people are so angry about EW. Because in the EP just previously, they based an enormous part of the story on the fact that Time Travel was implemented to change the past and in the process of doing so, a branch was made and both timelines still exist. While in EW? Nope, we are suddenly told that there was no way to have a timeline where Venat isn't a traitor and things end differently. It's just "always been this way". Except it hasn't. And it wasn't that long ago that we were shown exactly that.

[Xirean]

That's the thing. Time Travel wasn't taken to undo history.

Time Travel was undertaken in order to try to figure out if people from Elpis could help understand what was going on with the Final Days.

You didn't go back to undo anything.

People are trying to act like the WoL going back in time was to change what happened. And that isn't what the story is. The WoL went back in time because they always did.

That's how it was portrayed and there is really no changing that fact now, no matter how hard people want to argue.

The WoL was present for the trigger of the Final Days. They played a role in it. Just like Hermes, Meteion, Venat, and Emet Selch all played their roles. None of them are solely responsible for it. Each of them had a part in it.


But how are we threatening those civilizations? By what actions are we putting them at risk?

I think you are confusing things here. I don't actually care why we went back in time. The fact of the matter is that we did and did not try to change things but instead ensured that things would happen exactly the same. If we were simply a time ghost and had no ability to interact I would have had no problem. We just follow, watch, and learn. We view events as they unfolded while having no ability to do anything about anything. This means that the character I play is is not implicated in the destruction of 9+ different civilizations. That's my problem and why I will again press the issue; do not let me talk to a memory and expect me to not try to change things.

Quite frankly it's very odd that you would defend this. We are now playing as an accomplice to the worst crime in this realms history. Why does that not bother you?

[Valfreyja]

I think you are confusing things here. I don't actually care why we went back in time. The fact of the matter is that we did and did not try to change things but instead ensured that things would happen exactly the same. If we were simply a time ghost and had no ability to interact I would have had no problem. We just follow, watch, and learn. We view events as they unfolded while having no ability to do anything about anything. This means that the character I play is is not implicated in the destruction of 9+ different civilizations. That's my problem and why I will again press the issue; do not let me talk to a memory and expect me to not try to change things.

Quite frankly it's very odd that you would defend this. We are now playing as an accomplice to the worst crime in this realms history. Why does that not bother you?

It would bother me if I dwelled on it. But honestly...what does anyone think they are gonna accomplish by lamenting it? It's part of the story now. SE is not going to go back and retcon the entire thing, remake Endwalker all over to change that aspect of the story because people don't like it.

It's like people saying they should cut out Zenos from all the stuff he is in, because they don't like him. Or they don't want Raubahn to lose his arm in the ARR patch quests. Or any other number of events that happened that you may or may not like in the story.

At the end of the day, you aren't going to get such drastic changes put into the game. So just...why bother worrying about it? It's a fictional story, in a fictional world. It's not real life. You only end up stressing yourself out when you take these things too seriously.

There are countless pages in this thread of people standing up to say this or that needs to be changed. They don't agree with it. But does anyone honestly think SE is going to make those changes? Maybe they will use it when the story for future expansions is under consideration. But what has happened has happened.

[Skyborne]

The developers themselves have confirmed Hydaelyn deliberately left a crack in space for Emet and pals to squeeze through to avoid the sundering. This action makes 0 sense if she genuinely believed mankind would be able to overcome any form of adversity on their own, which means she instead did this in order to recreate the exact conditions that resulted specifically in our version of history. What this ultimately means is she NEEDED the Ascians to exist, and she NEEDED 7 shards to be rejoined. Hydaelyn, a character who the devs have gone on record stressing is not supposed to be evil, knowingly orchestrated events that resulted in 7 planets worth of lives being destroyed.

Not once have I ever heard the devs or anyone in game bring attention to this fact, therefore I assume the writers themselves don't see anything wrong with this, thus I'm inclined to believe they can and will do this again in future expansions.

It's just the endgame of protagonist-centered morality. The protagonists and our PC are the Certifiably Good People™️ as ordained by the writers, so anything is forgiveable as long as you are not a meanyhead about it and it benefits you -- and the benefit is always noble and pure, of course. Anyone who opposes the Good People are Bad and inherently selfish and greedy by principle. Even if someone manages to slip in a bit of humanization and actually makes you feel a bit bad for them, the Bad People are still bad and this needs to be corrected by the flanderization you mentioned, often with one of their favorite devices to make you dislike a character -- the Ugly Old Elezen Man Face (or UOEMF). Or a funny sinister meme face with a zoom-in.

Are the writers malicious? I don't believe so, they're just not thinking about it and we're the ones overthinking it (if that Q&A is any indication). The main priority is elevating and praising us the player and giving us goodfeels. Look at you, you defeated the embodiment of despair! Adventure! The journey was worth it! Everyone is cheering for you and your friends are okay without a single scratch! Okay, maybe you're indirectly responsible for all of this in the first place, but all the people who got wiped out were just not cool like you are! Even that Emit-Squelch guy agrees!

There are countless pages in this thread of people standing up to say this or that needs to be changed. They don't agree with it. But does anyone honestly think SE is going to make those changes? Maybe they will use it when the story for future expansions is under consideration. But what has happened has happened.

Don't think they'll change anything retroactively, but as long as the thread is around, stragglers can feel slightly more sane for not thinking it's the best ever. Also, it's become weirdly fun in a way.

[OhNooo]

It's just the endgame of protagonist-centered morality. The protagonists and our PC are the Certifiably Good People™️ as ordained by the writers, so anything is forgiveable as long as you are not a meanyhead about it and it benefits you -- and the benefit is always noble and pure, of course.

The main priority is elevating and praising us the player and giving us goodfeels. Look at you, you defeated the embodiment of despair! Adventure! The journey was worth it! Everyone is cheering for you and your friends are okay without a single scratch! Okay, maybe you're indirectly responsible for all of this in the first place, but all the people who got wiped out were just not cool like you are! Even that Emit-Squelch guy agrees!

All of this. It got to the point where it was kind of nauseating for me. Ok enough. I get it. We’re the best and we’ll always win.

I can’t handle another self righteous monologue or a convenient lack of dialogue options when the writers wanna push a narrative. The scions could disappear right now and I wouldn’t lose any sleep. Yoshi P was surprised at how deeply people were looking into the story. LMAO yeah so weird that people would be into the lore in a “story based mmorpg.”

I admit I was let down and needed to rant for awhile. But I’ve had time to think and I realize how silly the whole story looks to me. It’s kind of funny to me now.

Please keep this thread alive for entertainment purposes

[Skyborne]

All of this. It got to the point where it was kind of nauseating for me. Ok enough. I get it. We’re the best and we’ll always win.

I can’t handle another self righteous monologue or a convenient lack of dialogue options when the writers wanna push a narrative. The scions could disappear right now and I wouldn’t lose any sleep. Yoshi P was surprised at how deeply people were looking into the story. LMAO yeah so weird that people would be into the lore in a “story based mmorpg.”

I admit I was let down and needed to rant for awhile. But I’ve had time to think and I realize how silly the whole story looks to me. It’s kind of funny to me now.

Please keep this thread alive for entertainment purposes

What's funny is, the writers/art design team/music team are more than capable of things besides saccharine fluff. They made the rest of the XIV universe absolutely desolate and grimdark (pretty blue and gold worldtrees aside), and the Necropolis was my favorite part of UT. The dragons with their wartorn polluted world with the deformed/stillborn hatchlings got me too. Garlemald got the post-apocalypse depressed slav atmosphere down pretty well. The 85 dungeon was cool. The fleshy HR Gieger towers and the Telephoroi, twisted by tempering. The Ancients and their fate, full of juicy tragedy. They almost had a baby drown/turn into a beast.

Almost like the universe's Bad Stuff bounces off the Scion's plot armor and reflects elsewhere.

[Xirean]

It would bother me if I dwelled on it. But honestly...what does anyone think they are gonna accomplish by lamenting it? It's part of the story now. SE is not going to go back and retcon the entire thing, remake Endwalker all over to change that aspect of the story because people don't like it.

It's like people saying they should cut out Zenos from all the stuff he is in, because they don't like him. Or they don't want Raubahn to lose his arm in the ARR patch quests. Or any other number of events that happened that you may or may not like in the story.

At the end of the day, you aren't going to get such drastic changes put into the game. So just...why bother worrying about it? It's a fictional story, in a fictional world. It's not real life. You only end up stressing yourself out when you take these things too seriously.

There are countless pages in this thread of people standing up to say this or that needs to be changed. They don't agree with it. But does anyone honestly think SE is going to make those changes? Maybe they will use it when the story for future expansions is under consideration. But what has happened has happened.

Oh, no I would never expect them to change anything. Breaking down critiques in stories is a fun past time. It's genuinely fun to post what ifs and rewrites. I'd hardly expect SE to look at this forum much less care. If I could hope for anything it would be that they never do time travel in this story again and maybe give some consequences to the main cast. Also it's nice to know that there are other people who did not like this story. I don't need to expect something to change to voice my critiques.

[Teraq]

At the end of the day, you aren't going to get such drastic changes put into the game. So just...why bother worrying about it? It's a fictional story, in a fictional world. It's not real life. You only end up stressing yourself out when you take these things too seriously.

There are countless pages in this thread of people standing up to say this or that needs to be changed. They don't agree with it. But does anyone honestly think SE is going to make those changes? Maybe they will use it when the story for future expansions is under consideration. But what has happened has happened.

To me this isn't about changing anything, it's about making ourselves heard. I know I felt a little insane in December after going through the MSQ and being massively disappointed while it seemed everyone on Reddit and Twitter loved it. It felt like I had played an entirely different game. Multiple people have come into this thread expressing a similar sentiment of finally finding similar opinions and feeling like they aren't alone and crazy anymore. While it may not matter to you because it's a work of fiction / "it's just a game" etc, everyone reacts differently to things for myriad reasons. Personally, the disappointment of EW after being so invested in this game hit me hard, especially since, in retrospect, I had been using the game as something of an emotional crutch vs. real life, which I of course realize is massively cringe and omg get another hobby sis etc etc, but that's just how things were. I was unwell after the credits rolled. Reading the few and far between negative opinions on EW gave me some solace.