What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[ZeraSkiratea]

It's kinda funny thinking back to HW, there's a scene where Ardbert attempts to assault Hydaelyn for waiting until just then to finally help the First with the flood. I wonder how he'd feel learning that she's responsible for the chain of events leading to the flood happening in the first place. Only after most of the damage has already been done does she finally choose to play her part, eroding what's left of Minfilia's flesh and soul to stop it temporarily.

wasnt there a scene where hydaelyn(or another character who we can assume speaks for her, not quite sure remembering) said that she "tried to stop the rejoinings, and failed 7 times" (paraphrased) or something along those lines?


Unless you want to dismiss this as "her gaslighting us" or something along those lines... that dosnt seem like the rejoinigns where part of her plan, but that they happend despite her efforts, whatever becuase she simply failed, or because they had to happend as they where part of predetermined fate do to us traveling in time be irelevant for a second.


Same with stuff like the Flood in the first
its clearly stated that after 7 rejoinings her power was greatily diminished, so strongly she needed a "vessel" to interact with people.


She disregards the Shards in that sense that the source is the lynchpin, if the source falls the Shards are gone as well, and in a matter of live and death of the entire World and potentialy UNIVERSE, the live of individuals matter little in the grand scheme.


do i AGREE with her completly disregarding the shards with no means of escape? no(altough we dont know if the shards even have a "outerspace" like the source has or not given only the star was sunderd (or else we opend a gigantic can of worms and we stil dont know what purpose the Moons of the shards serve)) no i dont really agree with her, they had to be potentialy better ways to handel it.
Do i see this as her being "an antagonist on paper"? no not at all,not doing the best possible solution does not make you a villain, especialy as we still dont know how the sundering affected live imidiatly.


at best you can call Venat an "anti-hero" not an antagonist(well to the Ancients/ascians she was an antagonist but that... really means nothing or else almost any hero in any story is the antagonist if we view it from the oppositions view)


And to all the people who still say "why didnt we change anything in the past REEEEE timeline splits exists" first of all was it actually 100% confirmed that the timeline split? and it wasnt a open timeloop.
We know(or at least heavily implied) that Elpis is a closed time loop, we traveld in time because we where in elpis during that time period (as elidibus confussion about how he "remembers" us there implies altough a second potential idea exists for this at the end)

1/2

[ZeraSkiratea]

2/2
There are also significant differences between how elidibus sends us in time, and how Graha Tia traveld trough time
Mainly we are missing the Crystal tower and a "real body". In elpis from what i recall we are completly comprised of aether and not our actual body.

We ALSO have one extra stipulation that graha tia never had "we must return to our time" Elidibus specifically says(along those lines) "even if you can, by some chance, interact with the past, you will be unable to create impactfull change, because the world you must return to is a result of those final days"
Graha Tia never planned to return to his timeline.

Now we dont know if graha could POTENTIALY "hop" across timelines into his "original timeline" or not, but anyway, if we changed the past we would have 2 situations

A) we cant jump timelines, congratulations, you now fucked your original world and everyone on it, spitting in the face of the entire theme of the game in one fell swoop.
B) you manage to jump timelines, congratulations you manage to "change nothing" because in your world the Ancients still died, and you have no proof of whatever the new timeline you created actually remained after you left it or not



NOW there is another reading for the whole "elidibus remembers us" situation.

A gigantic open loop
the "original" version fo the final days played similiarily to what we know, just we never went to elpis, and Venat found out about it, and decided sundering was the only option at some point on her own.
everything in the game happens.
We decide to travel back in time, at THIS point the "timeline" shifts to one where we did travel back in time, which is why elidibus remembers us despite it being impossible, by deciding we want to travel in time, we created the timeline in which we traveld in time.
The events of elpis as WE know it play out, and the events of the game play out, identical in outcome, but potentialy different in intention or planning.
This would potentialy make Venat booth "planning and scheming" for the rejoinings so we exist in the post time travel version, while also "just being unable to stop them" in the pre time travel version.
ultimatly, venat, in booth versions, came to the same conclussion, just for potentialy different reassons.
Post time travel versions saw us and decided to bet on us for whatever reassons
pre time travel versions saw the final days and decided on her own for whatever reassons that sundering was the only option

[Lucida3b]

I find it odd that venat made a literal servant race and it's kinda... never pointed out how messed up that is?

[CrownySuccubus]

The story handwaves it by stating that they were "born of Hydaelyn's love of Etheirys", and implying at multiple times that their desire to make others happy is an incidental quality rather than something Hydaelyn programmed into them. They're "made of love", and therefore they're eager to serve.

I'm speculating, but it's possible that this something lost in cultural dissonance. In Japan, one of the most prominent expressions of love and interpersonal relationships is the Sempai/Kouhai, Upper/Lower dynamic. Showing reverence and devotion toward someone "above" you in the social chain, and that person acknowledging and rewarding that devotion, is considered one of the most potent forms of love.

In that respect, I doubt the writing team even thought of it as "Hydaelyn made a servant race" and thought of it more like "she made a bunch cute little kouhais for you to adore and give headpats to".

I'm not saying that this erases anything players might find "problematic". But I do sincerely doubt the writers even considered that.

[RoroCookies]

I find it odd that venat made a literal servant race and it's kinda... never pointed out how messed up that is?

It’s fine because they are small and cute and also anything that Venat does is good and we shouldn’t question it.

[Pyro2hell3]

Remember for the ancients something like creating the Loporrits was considered normal. They all did it some extent not just Venat

[Caurcas]

I find it odd that venat made a literal servant race and it's kinda... never pointed out how messed up that is?

Is it any worse than Emet setting up multiple civilizations for failure? Honestly the best way to prevent all this is to introduce all the self important Ancients to mr.wall.

[Lauront]

Or Venat setting up Emet to do that for her plan to work...

[Raoabolic]

Or Venat setting up Emet to do that for her plan to work...

I seriously don't think the current MSQ writer has it in her to make Venat a villain, lol.

[Lauront]

Well, they already did via the Q&A, in all but name.